I’m surprised they installed a powerblaster device for you. It’s not necessary or used on a powerwall system. Or did you have a solar only system first and added powerwalls later?
-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
Panel upgrade
- Thread starter Eric99
- Start date
I’m surprised they installed a powerblaster device for you. It’s not necessary or used on a powerwall system. Or did you have a solar only system first and added powerwalls later?
SoundDaTrumpet
Member
@Eric99, @Vines laid out your options pretty well. Consider you are on the East Bay with me, the 10k-30k figure holds true. I have insight on one project moving from 100A to 200A service for the main house and another service meter for the accessory dwelling unit ADU at 20-30k, direct burial. A minor variable is the distance to the PG&E labeled cristy box. I have another project in the works with PG&E building & renovations, and this cost is sunk into the remodel, and must be done.
There are two type of buyers: one who has their main breaker popping (nuisance) because they have A/C, pool pump, and EVs to charge on their L1 chargers. The second are ones who want to max out speed of their EV charging.
There are two type of buyers: one who has their main breaker popping (nuisance) because they have A/C, pool pump, and EVs to charge on their L1 chargers. The second are ones who want to max out speed of their EV charging.
Mrbrock
Active Member
For a meter panel like that with only one breaker, where does the solar back feed breaker get installed? If it goes into an interior sub panel, then you are still at the mercy of the 120% rule of that panel. Is there some type of shutoff box that can tie into that without needing an additional breaker slot?
I was recently quoted $5k by Tesla to replace a similar 125A panel with a 200A panel with 125A main breaker. This would allow you more flexibility for adding additional circuits closer to your meter (handy if your meter is on the side of your garage).
I was recently quoted $5k by Tesla to replace a similar 125A panel with a 200A panel with 125A main breaker. This would allow you more flexibility for adding additional circuits closer to your meter (handy if your meter is on the side of your garage).
Typically the generation sources go inside the Gateway 2 generation panel.
This panel is typically under the "100% rule" of 705.12 and therefore compliant.
Alternatively you can use an oversized panel, and still follow the 120% rule.
Be careful upgrading to the Square D panel previously recommended. I have a Square D SC3042M200PF 200 AMP panel as recommended in this thread. I have a 12.24kwh solar + 3 power wall system on order here in San Jose. Permits came through 3 weeks ago. But Tesla said they need to do some checks with PGE on the Meter location (perhaps too close to gas line)- odd since I pulled permits in 2017 when we upgraded the panel and no one mentioned anything about the meter and the gas line.
Well after calling and calling- now Tesla is saying that I need to pay them $5,000 for a main panel upgrade. So before upgrading anything you may want to get your quote through Tesla to find out first what they want. I find it odd that they are now say a the new Square D panel that is solar ready is not compatible with their PowerWall gateway. Perhaps the Tesla inside sales folks are just confused?
Well after calling and calling- now Tesla is saying that I need to pay them $5,000 for a main panel upgrade. So before upgrading anything you may want to get your quote through Tesla to find out first what they want. I find it odd that they are now say a the new Square D panel that is solar ready is not compatible with their PowerWall gateway. Perhaps the Tesla inside sales folks are just confused?
CalMdl3, didn't PGE come before the panel upgrade to check on meter location? I am asking as I just now requested SCE to do a meter spotting for my upgrade. Tesla quoted me $4200 for the panel upgrade but my local electrician would do it for $2000. My electrician told me to do the 'meter spotting' first before he files permit for upgrade.
SoCal Dave
Member
I still think $4,200 for an in place 200A upgrade seems too high, but $2,000 for a 200A upgrade is pretty cheap. Is the electrician licensed?
SoCal Dave
Member
So they aren't forcing a meter upgrade, but a meter relocation? I've never heard of a utility forcing a meter relocation unless you are upgrading the panel.
yes the electrician is licensed and does everything after pulling permit with LA county. He even added a 240voutlet last year for me after pulling a simple permit. Tesla recommended 200 amps to 225 amps upgrade. This will add additional few weeks to project.
In our case, our electrician did not do a meter spotting before upgrading the panel 3 years ago. I can only speculate that this is because the meter stayed the same place the panel just went up higher. Our city inspector approved the panel upgrade- so I would have thought if it were an issue it would have been flagged 3 years ago during final inspection. Also neither Tesla nor PGE seem to indicate that the meter location is the issue now- Tesla was saying it might be an issue earlier in Sept. It is very confusing because Tesla project coordinators really are just reading notes from a computer - they have no conceptual idea of what is going on - yet I cannot seem to get past these gate keepers to speak with a designer, electricians or installer to understand what is really going on.
The meter location issue was brought up by Tesla as to why my project had stalled after being given city permits 4 weeks ago. After pushing for more clarity from Tesla - they said the issue has now changed. Now the delay is they need to replace the existing 200 AMP 3 year old Square D Solar Ready panel for $5,000. I am waiting to get an explanation for why the panel upgrade is needed.
A solar ready panel is a panel that has bus bars that are rated to handle more power than the main breaker because of the 120% rule. Essentially that says that the panel can be fed with a total of 120% of the bus bar rating. So on a normal 200A panel the bus bars would be rated for 200A. Applying the 120% rule means that you can feed that panel with a max of 240A. If you have a 200A main breaker that only leaves 40A left for your solar system. A large solar system will require more than a 40A breaker.
The solar ready panel will have bus bars rated at, say, 250A, so applying the 120% rule to that gives you 300A. With a 200A main breaker that allows you to have up to 100A for your solar system.
However, all that is irrelevant for a powerwall install because the solar breakers won’t be put in the meter main panel. In fact, if you have a whole house backup you won’t have any circuits in your meter main except for the feed to Tesla Energy Gateway.
The problem that you run into with a powerwall install that may necessitate the replacement of your meter main panel is that some panels don’t allow for 200A breakers on the bus. Since all of your utility power will be fed through the gateway it needs a 200A breaker in your meter main panel. If your panel doesn’t support 200A breakers then it will need to be replaced.
I don’t know anything about that panel, so it’s possible that there’s another issue with it. But just because it’s solar ready doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s ‘powerwall ready’.
SoCal Dave
Member
It wouldn't even be an upgrade, it would just be a service change. A Square D panel is fine for solar. It is what my house has and thousands of houses across the country. Will be interesting to hear what they think the issue is.
I already have a 200 amp panel from 2003 (when my house was build). In my case, I was told by Tesla that my back feed from Powerwall is 92 amps and my circuit can only have max of 90 amps. So to cover that extra 2 amps, Tesla asked me to upgrade the panel. I guess I will do it anyway since its been 17 years and who knows if I have to increase the battery capacity later on down the line in a few years. So just having a 200 amp panel doesn't mean anything .. the underlying bus has to support it..
SoCal Dave
Member
Don't worry about age of a panel as part of your decision unless it is a panel with a known history of problems (some Zinsco panels for example). Panels and breakers are designed to be extremely reliable and rarely cause problems. I have the same panel as you and it is 36 years old. I expect it to outlive me.
Do the Tesla Engery Gateways or Powerwalls themselves have the ability to throttle the amount of power they dump back to the grid? I'd rather dial that back a bit if possible than go through a panel upgrade.
Also, did they say why it was limited to 90A?
I honestly don't know the throttling feature. I asked Tesla advisor to look at any other feature that would avoid a panel upgrade but when he got back after talking to their planners he said panel upgrade was only option. He sounded genuine too and said if I want to cancel project he would refund the $100. Also no idea why amps is limited to 90a ..
SoCal Dave
Member
They are probably looking at downgrading your main to a 150A and then limited to a 90A for the powerwalls as that would be 240A or 120% of a 200A panel.
If that is the reason, they probably could derate your main to a 125A and then they could use a 100A breaker for your powerwalls. However, you might need more than 125A for the load you use in your house.
The panel shown will take a 200A breaker right on the bus. Its ready to go for a 100% rule. I cannot speak to the possible issues with the Gas meter, as you aren't showing it. If the MSP was signed off its usually grandfathered in unless PGE has a wild hair to make life difficult.
when I talked to advisor he specifically mentioned upgrade to a 225 amps. I am attaching my panel picture in next post. In the BRANCH BREAKERS section you will see maximum 90 amp using CU cable.. I think they are referring to that rating and saying is less for the back feed.
Similar threads
