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Parking sensors
- Thread starter Zas
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- Model S User Interface
I think there's going to be a retrofit; it's more a question of how much it's going to cost. It would be more productive to urge them to find a way to keep the price down, IMO. Otherwise, they might get the idea that a high price is justified.
wdimagineer
Member
Spoke to an insider. They've created a retrofit campaign within Salesforce, their CRM. The more that e-mail, the more names that go into the campaign. When (if?) they're ready to announce, we should all get e-mails and/or phone calls.
steve841
Active Member
I added myself to the list of hopefuls with ownership... But if it passes the $1500.00 price point.... May be a tougher decision.
SteveW25561
Member
I also wrote ownership today, and for what it's worth urged them to reconsider options that don't require a full fascia change at least on new deliveries where there is at least rumored harnesses and pre scored hole locations. Doubt they will listen but what would I lose?
wdimagineer
Member
As I said before, I think this "magic machine" nonsense is bull. Tesla's bumpers are no different than any other bumper in terms of material and composition.
I think if anybody can figure out how to squeeze the last dime out of this process it would be Tesla. If it ultimately is decided that only the "magic machine" in Fremont can punch a 10mm hole that I could drill with my eyes closed, perhaps they'd work out some kind of arrangement where existing owners can return their fascias for some kind of credit.
Tesla doesn't paint the car with the bumpers installed. They're manufactured and painted separately. Returned bumpers/nose cones can be reconditioned, repainted, and sold on new cars. They're just a decorative cover and not a crucial safety component, so I don't think this would pose any kind of problem. In fact, on my factory tour, I saw lots of parts pulled off the line (including complete 'car in white' assemblies) that indicated they were due to be reconditioned and put back in the workflow.
In case anybody is curious, here are Volvo's instructions for installing rear parking sensors on the 2011+ S60. Both front and rear retrofit kits are available from the factory. The front is trivial, since the sensors are located in removable trim pieces. You just swap the trim pieces with new ones from the kit. The rear sensors require drilling. You do it in 2 steps. A 3mm pilot hole, a larger 10mm hole, and then Volvo has a special tool available called a hole stamp which cleans and deburrs the edges. All of the bumpers are pre-scored.
I helped a friend do this on his car. We borrowed the tool from the dealer. It took a few hours, and in the end, the installation looked and performed no different than on my S60, which had the sensors installed at the factory.
Parking assistance, rear, R-design - S60 2013 - Volvo Cars Accessories Web
Personally, I think Tesla is just stalling. They realized they screwed up in not offering this stuff sooner. I'm much happier working on my car myself, and hope they allow us to have this installed elsewhere.
I think if anybody can figure out how to squeeze the last dime out of this process it would be Tesla. If it ultimately is decided that only the "magic machine" in Fremont can punch a 10mm hole that I could drill with my eyes closed, perhaps they'd work out some kind of arrangement where existing owners can return their fascias for some kind of credit.
Tesla doesn't paint the car with the bumpers installed. They're manufactured and painted separately. Returned bumpers/nose cones can be reconditioned, repainted, and sold on new cars. They're just a decorative cover and not a crucial safety component, so I don't think this would pose any kind of problem. In fact, on my factory tour, I saw lots of parts pulled off the line (including complete 'car in white' assemblies) that indicated they were due to be reconditioned and put back in the workflow.
In case anybody is curious, here are Volvo's instructions for installing rear parking sensors on the 2011+ S60. Both front and rear retrofit kits are available from the factory. The front is trivial, since the sensors are located in removable trim pieces. You just swap the trim pieces with new ones from the kit. The rear sensors require drilling. You do it in 2 steps. A 3mm pilot hole, a larger 10mm hole, and then Volvo has a special tool available called a hole stamp which cleans and deburrs the edges. All of the bumpers are pre-scored.
I helped a friend do this on his car. We borrowed the tool from the dealer. It took a few hours, and in the end, the installation looked and performed no different than on my S60, which had the sensors installed at the factory.
Parking assistance, rear, R-design - S60 2013 - Volvo Cars Accessories Web
Personally, I think Tesla is just stalling. They realized they screwed up in not offering this stuff sooner. I'm much happier working on my car myself, and hope they allow us to have this installed elsewhere.
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EarlyAdopter
Active Member
It may have not been Tesla's doing at all.
On the most recently quarterly earnings call they re-iterated the difficulties they've had in getting suppliers to take them seriously: "And I feel like we are actually able to [finally] attract, kind of the A team on suppliers because whereas previously we had some trouble attracting A team from suppliers because they felt we wouldn't be around long-term"
No doubt this could very likely have been the cause for delays in being able to offer parking sensors.
dsmith2189
Active Member
Model S Cargo (Frunk) Net was only $20 in January when I bought mine. When was it $49?
Based on web search for "tesla cargo net $49" and skimming the previews for TMC and TM forums: December 2012.
wdimagineer
Member
I doubt it. There was a quote from Elon somewhere that said he and JB didn't like the look of the parking sensor circles. Continental, which makes various automotive systems - including parking sensors, is already a supplier. They build the air suspension, and probably other components. Their product range includes lots of drivetrain components, but also advanced driver aids, like adaptive cruise control, blind spot detection, rear cross traffic alert, brake assist, lane departure warning, intelligent headlight control, traffic sign recognition and more. This stuff exists and frankly for such an advanced ICE platform, it could be plug and play. We already know from screenshots that the software may have this software built in already. So why is it not in the car?
Personally, I feel any sub-$1000 option should be included as standard. Look at competing gas offerings, like BMW. On the 5, 6 and 7 Series for 2014, which are equivalently priced to Model S 60/85/P85, you get ADAPTIVE xenon headlamps, navigation, parking sensors, sunroof, and various other options standard. While iDrive isn't as awesome as the TeslaOS, it does control most of the car, and integrates things I wish we had, like traversing lines on the backup camera and overlaid 3D "blocks" representing obstacles. The maps are very detailed, with various views like direction of travel and perspective, with 3D buildings included. I miss my adaptive headlights at times.
This car is arguably the most technologically advanced on the road, yes. But BMW just walked all over Tesla with the i3 in terms of driver aids and advanced technologies. Extensive use of carbon fiber, connected technologies, driver aids, etc. Things that have been around 10 or more years should be available on Model S. But they're not, because Tesla has this attitude that is prevalent in Silicon Valley. Your users are your beta testers. Intentionally leave things out, iterate on the design, and then release something new to get them to upgrade - whether it's buying a new car, trading in for a loaner, or paying out the nose for a retrofit. Just like Apple with the iPhone or Samsung with the Galaxy series, people will find an excuse to upgrade for even the most insignificant of features, and that is what Tesla is banking on to keep momentum going. (Just my opinion.)
There is no reason I can think of why this stuff shouldn't be an option. And it's going to happen, probably in the next few months. Production order sheets - attached to cars at the factory in Fremont - have options boxes listing these things already. But people can't wait, so they'll buy now, and then figure out later how to make it all work.
I'm thinking about changing my order to include the parking sensors. If I remove the supercharger option (no superchargers in my area and won't be for another year and a half, from what I'm told) and add the parking sensors, the total cost of my configuration will decrease $100.
I figure since I don't take long trips driving and there are no supercharges in my area, why should I pay $2k for something I'm not going to use no time soon. Especially since retrofitting is expected to be $3k to $4k based on estaminets with no timeframe or for sure answer from TM if they will do it, only that it is possible and they are considering it.
I heard the supercharge is already in the MS? And that all they need to do is flip a switch to activate it? If so, then I'd rather pay the for sure price of $2.5k and get the supercharge whenever I want, then to possible pay $3-$4k for parking sensors *IF* Tesla makes it an option. Only issue is my order might get pushed back... again! Decisions, decisions...
I figure since I don't take long trips driving and there are no supercharges in my area, why should I pay $2k for something I'm not going to use no time soon. Especially since retrofitting is expected to be $3k to $4k based on estaminets with no timeframe or for sure answer from TM if they will do it, only that it is possible and they are considering it.
I heard the supercharge is already in the MS? And that all they need to do is flip a switch to activate it? If so, then I'd rather pay the for sure price of $2.5k and get the supercharge whenever I want, then to possible pay $3-$4k for parking sensors *IF* Tesla makes it an option. Only issue is my order might get pushed back... again! Decisions, decisions...
dennis
Model S Plaid
I think the real issue is that Tesla Service everywhere is totally maxed out. They don't have any bandwidth to do retrofits, whether it be parking sensors or P+ suspension parts for P85 early adopters (like me). Given they do offer parking sensor retrofits, the least labor intensive and most foolproof way will be to provide the Service Centers with pre-punched fascias, the same way the sensors are installed on the production line. Yes, it is a lot more expensive for owners who are retrofitting the sensors, but it makes it feasible for them to offer the retrofit vs. having every Service Center trained on drilling the fascias (and possibly screwing up).
I've been enjoying my aftermarket sensors for 8 months. While they don't integrate with the visual display of the Model S, the audible warning tones are more than adequate at communicating how close I am to an object. Total cost for front and rear was $2000.
dsmith2189
Active Member
Something I've been wondering, so I guess I'll throw it out there...
are the Tesla sensors something special or are they the same as other OEM sensors or available on the aftermarket? I assume the same.
If they are the same then the price should be similar to other car manufacturers sensor upgrade kits.
threads above have suggested that the current wiring harness has connections for parking sensors.
If someone already installed aftermarket sensors, could they connect directly into those connectors and then have the S/W setting changed to enable them?
or do you need a magic black box somewhere to let the car know about the sensors.
are the Tesla sensors something special or are they the same as other OEM sensors or available on the aftermarket? I assume the same.
If they are the same then the price should be similar to other car manufacturers sensor upgrade kits.
threads above have suggested that the current wiring harness has connections for parking sensors.
If someone already installed aftermarket sensors, could they connect directly into those connectors and then have the S/W setting changed to enable them?
or do you need a magic black box somewhere to let the car know about the sensors.
wdimagineer
Member
The sensors will be sourced from a third party and packaged to Tesla specifications. This means they'll have a Tesla part number. Any ECU will have a Tesla branding. But it's definitely not something they're manufacturing on their own.
There's no confirmation officially that cars have a wiring harness. Like most, there's going to be a main harness that serves the front and rear. Whether it has the extra wires required is uncertain.
I remember on certain Volvo XC60 cars a harness existed for fog lights. A few Tesla folks including a ranger said ours have the wiring for fog light retrofit. It's just the housings that are missing them.
It would make sense in terms of efficiency for Tesla to use a single harness with such low volumes but until it's officially announced it's all just speculation.
There's no confirmation officially that cars have a wiring harness. Like most, there's going to be a main harness that serves the front and rear. Whether it has the extra wires required is uncertain.
I remember on certain Volvo XC60 cars a harness existed for fog lights. A few Tesla folks including a ranger said ours have the wiring for fog light retrofit. It's just the housings that are missing them.
It would make sense in terms of efficiency for Tesla to use a single harness with such low volumes but until it's officially announced it's all just speculation.
Jerome at Teslive confirmed that the sensors require a sonic drill due to the mount they are using. Apparently these aren't too common, and not in the service centers.
The fact they are offering a retrofit at all says a lot about the Company. I can't recall the last time a car manufacturer offers upgrades direct of factory options to prior vehicles. If this is successful, perhaps there will be more in the future.
One other point: Lexus and Toyota change mid-cycle and mid year all the time. One specific example was the SOS system. I had a first off the line Prius 3 but minus the system, which they added two months into production. Their response: "we don't do upgrades."
Tesla may have some typical scaling issues but when issues are raised they seem to be getting addressed. I would suggest keeping the dialog open and on the level... It will make for a better experience and enhance the longevity of vehicles.
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I am a bit confused by this comment. The i3 looks like the love child of a Leaf and a VW Golf, with the range of neither, and a few features that are arguably of questionable value?
The fact they are offering a retrofit at all says a lot about the Company. I can't recall the last time a car manufacturer offers upgrades direct of factory options to prior vehicles. If this is successful, perhaps there will be more in the future.
One other point: Lexus and Toyota change mid-cycle and mid year all the time. One specific example was the SOS system. I had a first off the line Prius 3 but minus the system, which they added two months into production. Their response: "we don't do upgrades."
Tesla may have some typical scaling issues but when issues are raised they seem to be getting addressed. I would suggest keeping the dialog open and on the level... It will make for a better experience and enhance the longevity of vehicles.
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I am a bit confused by this comment. The i3 looks like the love child of a Leaf and a VW Golf, with the range of neither, and a few features that are arguably of questionable value?
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