Passenger lumbar support missing from new MY

[SantiagoDraco]

Followed by an Elon tweet:

Removed steering wheel heaters, logs showed little usage. Not worth cost/mass for everyone when almost never used. Enjoy your new Tesla gloves!

I was just thinking about this, the Musk tweets about "logs showed little usage". Maybe they should remove side mirror adjustment controls. Or windshield washers. Or hell back seats. Maybe overhead indoor lights. Emergency lights could go too. Airbags as well.

After all they are all likely "little used" compared to other features.

 

[Wheely]

I don't disagree with this perspective - they should do a better job of PR even without a PR dept - but at the same time, we also got items like the heated wheel, auto-dimming mirrors and double-pane front windows for 'free'. And no mention of these items as they came on-stream last fall. I'd trade the passenger's lumbar support for all of those items, no questions asked. Funny how no one (or very few) gave Tesla kudos for adding these items but they get slammed for removing a relatively small feature. Seems like there are more 'anti-fanbois' than 'fanbois' on here lately.

All car manufacturers improve things over time. Tesla just choose to do it incrementally. It's not special.

 

[DayTrippin]

how the title was worded caused the panic-Lumber is missing! If it started like=Tesla engineers fixed so & so without the lumber and now it's very efficient blah, blah, blah. Don't be Chicken Little fellas! Tesla won't sell vehicles with defect or safety compromised.

I would respectfully argue that the removal of the radar on the 3 and Y has compromised the safety of the car, at minimum, in the short term. When you have NHTSA and IIHS removing the safety features from the car's profile, it is clear that the car is likely less safe in certain instances. Otherwise, why add them in the first place. Number one rule in an accident is to avoid it in the first place or brake/take evasive action to minimize the severity. Then hope you have a very safe car to hopefully survive it.

I think Tesla should have a running changelog of feature changes on all their cars accessible to the public so you can see what exact content was on your car at the time you ordered it. I feel it is bait and switch if the car had radar and some other feature at the time of ordering. Don't tell me to accept at the time of deliver that you've gutted the features of the car. That is clearly bait and switch and misrepresentation of what I was promised. You shouldn't have to go to some Tesla website and use a special decoder ring to understand what your car should have on it or what is changing. Some of this reminds me of stealth editing that a lot of newspapers do when they screw something up.

I am willing to pay more for improved material features but I also want to be charged less if you remove something material. At least be up front if you are shafting me.

 

[DanDi58]

I would respectfully argue that the removal of the radar on the 3 and Y has compromised the safety of the car, at minimum, in the short term. When you have NHTSA and IIHS removing the safety features from the car's profile, it is clear that the car is likely less safe in certain instances. Otherwise, why add them in the first place. Number one rule in an accident is to avoid it in the first place or brake/take evasive action to minimize the severity. Then hope you have a very safe car to hopefully survive it.

Just to set the record straight here - NHTSA didn't remove the check marks because they feel the car is less safe, it's because they haven't tested the new version yet (which, according to Elon, should happen this week). You are certainly entitled to your opinion on whether or not the car is less safe, but let's not make assumptions about any change in the ratings with NHTSA. They are simply following their procedures.

 

[Foxtrotter]

The decision to delete the passenger lumbar adjustment based on usage statistics is just dumb. Most of the cars are used for shorter trips often with only the driver, especially during the pandemic. Of course the passenger lumbar adjustment is rarely used.

However, there are users like my wife and myself that use our Teslas for long road trips as well as frequent 100 mile plus trips. On these longer trips the lumbar adjustment is almost always used by both of us. Actually we'd really like it if the passenger seat adjustments were all in memory like the driver's so the seats could both be set automatically when we change drivers. The presence of fully adjustable passenger seats has long been a mark of luxury vehicles that we have owned. To not have it in future Teslas may require us to reevaluate whether our next car will be a Tesla and certainly reduces our thinking about the Tesla 3 and Y as luxury vehicles.

 

[angus[Y]oung]

and certainly reduces our thinking about the Tesla 3 and Y as luxury vehicles.

@Foxtrotter this point was discussed in some detail a while back, and most feel that although these vehicles are priced like a luxury vehicle, they really aren't. You're paying the premium for the mature EV tech and the Supercharger network.

 

[gearchruncher]

Just to set the record straight here - NHTSA didn't remove the check marks because they feel the car is less safe, it's because they haven't tested the new version yet (which, according to Elon, should happen this week)

To also set the record straight- Tesla could have engaged NHTSA with a test car earlier in the process, and avoided all of this. Wouldn't have even needed to be a radar only car, the SW can just ignore radar.
In order to do this, they would have needed to have a functional, verified software version about 2 weeks before they released it to their customers.

 

[Foxtrotter]

@Foxtrotter this point was discussed in some detail a while back, and most feel that although these vehicles are priced like a luxury vehicle, they really aren't. You're paying the premium for the mature EV tech and the Supercharger network.

You may not consider them luxury vehicles but I do based on the features, not the buttons and leather.
However, it does look as though Tesla is moving away from positioning them as luxury.

 

[pusheen]

You may not consider them luxury vehicles but I do based on the features, not the buttons and leather.
However, it does look as though Tesla is moving away from positioning them as luxury.

Even the partial premium interior had driver and passenger lumbar support.

 

[hellobye]

@Foxtrotter this point was discussed in some detail a while back, and most feel that although these vehicles are priced like a luxury vehicle, they really aren't. You're paying the premium for the mature EV tech and the Supercharger network.

There must be a significant difference of opinion on what is considered luxury (e.g. Model S/X is, Model 3/Y, is not)

To be honest I think there is a LOT of opportunity to downgrade these vehicles to "less luxury" if they really aren't considered luxury. I think its the sum of all these tiny insignificant things that are added in that are really designed to put it in "luxury" category. While I agree, you are paying for the charging infrastructure and technical maturity, when compared against a Nissan Leaf or a Chevrolet Bolt, it seems there is still a lot of luxury.

Things I would name in particular that tend to add relatively significant luxury, cost, and also some weight (which means cost for electric):

1. Laminated Front Door Windows
2. Leather Seats
3. Power/Automatic everything
   1. Folding mirrors (I regular adjustment seems standard these days)
   2. Heated mirrors
   3. Auto dimming mirrors
   4. Heated Seats (front and rear)
   5. Heated Steering Wheel
   6. Steering Wheel adjustments
   7. Fore/Aft, height, seat back angle, lumbar support for Driver
   8. Fore/Aft, height, seat back angle, lumbar support for Passenger
   9. Automatic down AND UP on all windows
   10. Automatic/electric climate control in every aspect (temperature, location, speed, etc)
   11. Power lift gate
   12. Power 60/40 seat release
   13. Power doors (from inside, anyways)
   14. Automatic lights (pretty standard now, I guess)
4. Premium entertainment system and nav
5. Mobile device monitoring and control (typically a subscription service for ICE?)
6. Panoramic Moonroof
7. Fog lights
8. Parking sensors everywhere with auto park capability
9. Unnecessarily high HP drivetrain
10. All the Autopilot functionality (TACC, emergency X, Y, Z detection)

Historically I have sacrificed nearly all of those things for the sake of money - the car I sold was a 5-speed manual base Subaru. I would expect the proposed Model 2 would remove many if not all of these items to hit the cost and weight target.

Maybe a good practice would be to benchmark with similar class vehicles -- maybe the X5? Then benchmark against the class below (CRV, RAV4?), and the class above (AMG G-wagon, Range Rover?)

Then again, if I look at all these things and the MSRP of a Chevrolet Bolt or Nissan Leaf at ~40K... Minus the typical dealer haggling... We might be getting a lot more bang for our buck than we think...

Generally, I think some things are "creating a problem for the solution", like power seats. Usage statistics for the rest of the power adjustments would be significantly higher since they built in their own function to make ingress egress easier... I would have expected the power passenger to go away except the fact that that's another variation of components to manage rather than just deleting altogether. Not a hill worth dying on but lumbar adjustment (manual or power) seems much more beneficial to the user vs power passenger in my opinion.

 

[Fakedevil]

I agree with several posters point, tesla is going to get away from doing things like this cause they still have the super charger network and just nicer looking vehicles at a relatively affordable price point. The truth is I suspect folks who are into EV is actually more likely to change cars over time vs the traditional car, and this sort of moves erodes customer trust which makes me more likely to look elsewhere. Will be interesting to see what happens when better competition appears..

I was just checking out X and S interior features, they don't even talk about lumber or power seats.. is the expectation those are just manual seats? Or did I miss the fine prints on those seats?

 

[pennyarcade]

Has anybody been able to check whether the passenger seat itself has the ability to do adjustable lumbar support and is missing one or two components to allow for the feature to be active?

 

[gearchruncher]

Or did I miss the fine prints on those seats?

Since Tesla loves the fine print... Show me where it says it comes with a headliner or carpet. Or fold down rear seats. Or a trunk or frunk. Or 4 tires. Or a windshield....

The generic "buyer beware" situation where you can inspect a product then buy it doesn't even work here. If you test drove a Tesla 3 weeks ago and then ordered one, the car you were/will be delivered is functionally different than the one shown to you, without notification, or in many cases the ability to inspect the car before purchase.

 

[Tranquil Rage]

Has anybody been able to check whether the passenger seat itself has the ability to do adjustable lumbar support and is missing one or two components to allow for the feature to be active?

I just checked the M3 service manual (I’m assuming that MY is similar). Lumbar support assembly and pump can be accessed easily by removing plastic backshell on the back of the seat. This is not good news because if it’s modular, then Tesla could eliminate not only the switch, but the entire lumbar assembly fairly easily. They would just have to rev. their seat assembly drawings and bill of materials to delete the parts. Only way to confirm would be for one of the new owners without lumbar support to remove seat back cover and inspect.

 

[linux-works]

Since Tesla loves the fine print... Show me where it says it comes with a headliner or carpet. Or fold down rear seats. Or a trunk or frunk. Or 4 tires. Or a windshield....

that's found under the disclaimer section titled "caveat bumper"

lol

 

[gearchruncher]

They would just have to rev. their seat assembly drawings and bill of materials to delete the parts.

This also means the seat would feel like one with a completely collapsed lumbar support, which is not the way a seat is made if it isn't designed to have non-adjustable lumbar and to fit the "average" user.

 

[Tranquil Rage]

This also means the seat would feel like one with a completely collapsed lumbar support, which is not the way a seat is made if it isn't designed to have non-adjustable lumbar and to fit the "average" user.

Perfect, then maybe they left the lumbar assembly in the seat and just deleted the switch, which would make it possible to retrofit down the road. Like I said in my previous post, only way to know for sure is for someone with a lumbar-less 3 or Y to inspect behind seat back cover.

 

[whisperingshad]

Honestly, I am glad i got mine built 3/31/21. Otherwise i would wait till at least next year to get the Tax rebates(if and when they come), or possibly even the 4680 batteries and full gigastamp they are starting now.

 

[Fakedevil]

Perfect, then maybe they left the lumbar assembly in the seat and just deleted the switch, which would make it possible to retrofit down the road. Like I said in my previous post, only way to know for sure is for someone with a lumbar-less 3 or Y to inspect behind seat back cover.

Washington State Waiting Room

Congratulations! If you are picking up in Renton and don't mind, please share your delivery experience! I am and will definitely share!

teslamotorsclub.com

Not able to retrofit according to this post.

 

[thinger]

Because all is based on usage stats. Why then rear seats has still heating included?
If they can see usage of passanger lumbar support but they can't see is driver on seat or not. There is something BS on air currently.

Then there is that they still need to provide driver seat with lumbar support to countries where driver is on right side, example UK.