Path to V2G and Model Y [there is none]

[Bobfitz1]

I expect to order my MY next year after Vermont's "mud season" is over. Later that year (SP willing) I'll work with TE to get solar panels and one or two PowerWalls. Ideally I would like the MY to be able to use some of the energy from the panels on good days, as well as provide further backup capacity for the house during winters.

When TE decides it's ready to implement full V2G with AutoTrader, I'd like that to work in my setup as well.
Does anyone have information/insight into whether the charging hardware in Model Y is ready to provide home backup and/or eventual be able to share it's energy with the grid once it gets any needed OTA software updates?

My guess would be it does, if we assume that in this scenario it will be the solar panel and Powerwall hardware and software in the house that will handle interaction with grid to enable V2G in the future, not the EV. I would think as long as MY hardware has the ability to send power in both directions it should not require after manufacture hardware upgrades to fit into V2G architecture. If anyone knows for certain, any links to sources would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

 

[jjrandorin]

Teardowns engineers who work on this stuff have said that current model 3 / y chargers are not bidirectional so current cars do not have this capability.

I dont have links, sorry, but you should be able to find them by searching google for model 3 bi directional charging.

Even though tesla updates their cars via OTA updates (and their other products too), my suggestion is not to buy something that doesnt have a core feature you are "expecting". You need to be happy with the core functionality of the product when you buy it.

If V2G is a major concern / want for you, then you need to wait on buying your vehicle until it is confirmed to me a feature of the vehicle you buy, by tesla statements. if its a "nice to have, but I dont really care if it happens or not" then go ahead and purchase, but be aware that it may never happen with your current vehicle.

 

[Juanpelota]

Vermont here... we've 9kW set up from TE, 2 yrs with M3, now with MY. @JJ is right - it is a much more complex problem... and something that NREL has been working on for years... Japan had a very advanced effort to do this with LEAFs in tokyo and it did not go very well. It is likely that V2G with tesla is a nonstarter, and powerwalls is the solution (Lifecyleanalysis). (read, no Wear&Tare on your car). Also, importantly, the pace of the emergent edge of "sustainability" solutions is not limited by tech... nor $ for that matter... the biggest limits are generally political and social. In VT.. there is more pressing issue with GMP being a privatized monopoly of a public good (electricity) and their control over the grid... including current proposals to not roll feed-in credits beyond one month (nuts no?) .

Anyway, PV from TE at $1.43/watt is amazing price. I am not understanding any advantages of what V2G would bring to your TE + Powerwall+ car set up.

 

[jjrandorin]

Vermont here... we've 9kW set up from TE, 2 yrs with M3, now with MY. @JJ is right - it is a much more complex problem... and something that NREL has been working on for years... Japan had a very advanced effort to do this with LEAFs in tokyo and it did not go very well. It is likely that V2G with tesla is a nonstarter, and powerwalls is the solution (Lifecyleanalysis). (read, no Wear&Tare on your car). Also, importantly, the pace of the emergent edge of "sustainability" solutions is not limited by tech... nor $ for that matter... the biggest limits are generally political and social. In VT.. there is more pressing issue with GMP being a privatized monopoly of a public good (electricity) and their control over the grid... including current proposals to not roll feed-in credits beyond one month (nuts no?) .

Anyway, PV from TE at $1.43/watt is amazing price. I am not understanding any advantages of what V2G would bring to your TE + Powerwall+ car set up.

The people who are focused on V2G in general are focused on the fact that they feel like they have a big, rolling powerwall in their garage that could power their home.

Most people who are asking for this repeatedly are talking about "instead of" powerwalls, not "in addition to" powerwalls. My personal belief, that I have said a few times here in TMC in various threads, is that I feel that eventually V2H (not vehicle to grid) will come to tesla....only to people who already have powerwalls.

Those people will already have permission to operate and feed their home with "storage" and more importantly already will have the gateway which manages all the flow directions etc. They can prove that they are safe to not possibly injure linemen / linewomen when they are working on downed powerlines.

Any other scenario, where people think they are going to roll up with their tesla vehicle and power their home, either on or off grid, without some sort of already permitted device that automatically controls powerflows is simply not going to happen, in my opinion.

Now, this OP is planning on powerwalls and solar, which is where I think V2H will eventually happen, but no idea when, and current vehicles dont have bi directional charging per teardowns I have read from people who design bi directional charging systems. I would love the ability to plug in my car and supplement my already existing PV + powerwall setup in a "grid is down" situation. I just dont bank on it happening any time real soon, and dont bank on it ever happening at all with tesla cars for people who dont have at least permitted powerwalls.

 

[wjgjr]

Most people who are asking for this repeatedly are talking about "instead of" powerwalls, not "in addition to" powerwalls. My personal belief, that I have said a few times here in TMC in various threads, is that I feel that eventually V2H (not vehicle to grid) will come to tesla....only to people who already have powerwalls.

Those people will already have permission to operate and feed their home with "storage" and more importantly already will have the gateway which manages all the flow directions etc. They can prove that they are safe to not possibly injure linemen / linewomen when they are working on downed powerlines.

I agree. This avoids - or at least mitigates - the issue with utilities, plus I think it will be pretty important to any solution to have at least some permanent battery capacity on site since your vehicle can easily spend well over a quarter of its time away from home (if you use it to commute to work, as an example.) I suppose some day you can tell your self-driving car to go home and plug itself in while you work, but we are definitely not there yet.

 

[jboy210]

My concern with V2G or V2H usage is battery lifespan and also impact on vehicle warranty.

Using the battery to power a home in addition to driving puts a lot more charge cycles on the battery. And there is a limited number of these cycles available. Will the battery warranty be decrease if you use your vehicle for V2G or V2H? Will there be a low limit on the amount of current that can be drawn? What infrastructures will be needed to convert the DC in the batteries to AC. What will this cost? Lots of unanswered questions. Maybe today's battery will shed some light. But Elon has already tempered expectation saying they are talking 2 years out.

 

[Electrph]

Agree with @jjrandorin .. sounds awesome to utilize that big rolling battery .. but ppl are oversimplifying what is necessary for this to work esp the regulation portions .. whether it is PV, installed batteries or a big ass rolling 75kWh battery utility is not allowing you to just connect it and go to town
Not trying to poo poo it .. i would love to have my M3 as last ditch emergency power

 

[funkywizard]

If you look at model Y KWH vs price, it's cheaper than the same KWH from powerwall, AND it's also a car. You'd need 5 or 6 powerwalls to equal the KWH of a model Y, and the cost of that is nearly identical to the car, new. Maybe even cheaper if you buy a used Tesla. It's pretty obvious why someone would be interested in this instead of powerwall.