Pay per use supercharging

[Beckler]

Not sure if this is the first official confirmation for Model 3 - see third item in chart:

Tesla says Model 3 will have fewer than 100 configurations to Model S’ more than 1,500

I know you pay for it one way or the other, but still it's disappointing. Part of the Tesla magic was to be able to go on road trips without any consideration in this regard. Oh well!

 

[Missile Toad]

Well a typical driver is expected to do 10% or less miles per year on road trips -- which is about the only thing the SuperCharger is useful for. For those who drive 15,000 in a year, that is 1,500 miles. When the unlimited supercharging was a $2,000 option, you could, perhaps, allocate about $200 to the cost of supercharging annually. $1 ~= 32 miles on the road ($0.12 per kWhr -- average utility rate for electricity). So you are really getting about 6,000+ miles in that scenario..., more than most would need.

This ends up being a problem only for those who tour the country incessantly -- who, under the old system, are subsidized by people with routine daily commutes < 150 miles (and don't regularly use the SuperChargers). Do you want to pay the extra to help those 'road warrior' people out? Do you want the chargers to be clogged with people who think it is an 'all you can eat' system?

 

[JHWJR]

And if the charges rate is the same as was being charged S/X owners, it isn't much. It's still a bargain.

 

[dsvick]

Not sure if this is the first official confirmation for Model 3 - see third item in chart:

It's not, we've known for months that there would be no "free for life" SC. The only thing not known is if the model 3 would get any annual allotment like the S and X. The comparison chart doesn't answer that one way or the other.

 

[JeffK]

Well a typical driver is expected to do 10% or less miles per year on road trips -- which is about the only thing the SuperCharger is useful for. For those who drive 15,000 in a year, that is 1,500 miles. When the unlimited supercharging was a $2,000 option, you could, perhaps, allocate about $200 to the cost of supercharging annually. $1 ~= 32 miles on the road ($0.12 per kWhr -- average utility rate for electricity). So you are really getting about 6,000+ miles in that scenario..., more than most would need.

This ends up being a problem only for those who tour the country incessantly -- who, under the old system, are subsidized by people with routine daily commutes < 150 miles (and don't regularly use the SuperChargers). Do you want to pay the extra to help those 'road warrior' people out? Do you want the chargers to be clogged with people who think it is an 'all you can eat' system?

Assuming they stick with the free 400 kWh credits per year that's anywhere from 1300 - 1600 miles depending on how you drive. I'm Imagining the Model 3 is closer to the 1600 miles number.

If this is the case then, personally, 100% of my supercharging for long distance travel will be free

 

[diamond.g]

It's not, we've known for months that there would be no "free for life" SC. The only thing not known is if the model 3 would get any annual allotment like the S and X. The comparison chart doesn't answer that one way or the other.

And my understanding of the new free for life is that it follows the owner not the car for the vehicles that get it after the original free for life ended.

 

[Beckler]

I'm going to assert that the idea of free charging is a much bigger draw to potential M3 buyers than S/X ones. Tesla may not be looking to drive up demand right now, but in a year or 3 when they want to sell a million per year, maybe so. I'm ok with S/X buyers essentially funding more of the cost of this; they're already doing so anyway. Also it's not just how much highway travel the average driver does, it's that it's a draw to be able to (possibly) do far more because of it.

 

[jsrawa]

I'm going to assert that the idea of free charging is a much bigger draw to potential M3 buyers than S/X ones. Tesla may not be looking to drive up demand right now, but in a year or 3 when they want to sell a million per year, maybe so. I'm ok with S/X buyers essentially funding more of the cost of this; they're already doing so anyway. Also it's not just how much highway travel the average driver does, it's that it's a draw to be able to (possibly) do far more because of it.

Once the backlog of reservations for the 3 is alleviated Tesla will need the 400 kWh credits to draw the general public. The general public needs this credit to remove the mental barrier against long distance travel in the 3. Like you said this will be more important to 3 buyers than S/X buyers.

 

[TexLaw]

I know you pay for it one way or the other

That's really the deal, so I don't know why you are disappointed. There's nothing "free" about FUSC. Pay for it up front, or pay as you go. Frankly, I wonder how much of what I paid for my MS is for the FUSC and whether I'll ever "get that back," so to speak. When you pay as you go, you know you're getting what you've paid for.

You still really have no concern, and the charging rates pretty much approximate a very good rate for charging at home in the area of the supercharger (unless you're shooting for 100% in an area where you're charged per minute--that starts getting pretty expensive).

 

[JeffK]

That's really the deal, so I don't know why you are disappointed. There's nothing "free" about FUSC. Pay for it up front, or pay as you go. Frankly, I wonder how much of what I paid for my MS is for the FUSC and whether I'll ever "get that back," so to speak. When you pay as you go, you know you're getting what you've paid for.

You still really have no concern, and the charging rates pretty much approximate a very good rate for charging at home in the area of the supercharger (unless you're shooting for 100% in an area where you're charged per minute--that starts getting pretty expensive).

The per minute in my area is significantly lower than residential prices per kWh.

 

[kzod]

I can't understand why everyone wants free supercharging. At best I would like free supercharging personally, but not if everyone is getting it! Heck, I'd happily pay much more to charge than the current rates just to ensure that not too many people are using up all the stalls. If / when you take a road trip you will need SC access. With thousands and then hundreds of thousands of new cars on the road demand wil be huge. It will be like living through a major Gas shortage with huge lineups

 

[JeffK]

I can't understand why everyone wants free supercharging. At best I would like free supercharging personally, but not if everyone is getting it! Heck, I'd happily pay much more to charge than the current rates just to ensure that not too many people are using up all the stalls. If / when you take a road trip you will need SC access. With thousands and then hundreds of thousands of new cars on the road demand wil be huge. It will be like living through a major Gas shortage with huge lineups

If you exclude renters/apartment dwellers...
If the majority of people charge at home I don't see why it should get backed up. Maybe during holiday travel periods, but you'd have that problem if paying anyway. The best scenario is faster charging which leads to higher throughput.

 

[T34ME]

If you exclude renters/apartment dwellers...
If the majority of people charge at home I don't see why it should get backed up. Maybe during holiday travel periods, but you'd have that problem if paying anyway. The best scenario is faster charging which leads to higher throughput.

I live about 4 miles from a SC location at a factory outlet mall. The SC is only somewhat busy on the weekends. Even if I had "free" supercharging for life - MS, MX, or M3 - I'll be dogged if I will drive those 4 miles just to get something "free" on the grid when I can charge at home with my Solar City panels providing unlimited solar power while sitting in my patio with my favorite beverage in hand! >95% of my charging will be done at home. "Free" supercharging, even a small annual allowance, is NOT a benefit that has particular appeal to me (I may be the exception).

 

[jsmay311]

Once the backlog of reservations for the 3 is alleviated Tesla will need the 400 kWh credits to draw the general public. The general public needs this credit to remove the mental barrier against long distance travel in the 3.

Idk. Given that the price per kWh is supposed to be low enough to make long-distance driving less expensive than gasoline driving, I wouldn't think that would be much of a mental barrier.

I think the speed of charging and the availability/prevalence of the SCs are much more important factors.

Still, I agree that having some amount of free annual kWh's is a very good idea from a marketing standpoint. 400 kWh at $0.15/kWh is only $60/year... a very small amount in the grand scheme of things, either for Tesla or the owner (and some owners won't even use all 400 kWh). But it probably has an out-sized value in most people's heads, and therefore probably makes sense for Tesla to provide it for the 3.

 

[GregHudson]

And if the charges rate is the same as was being charged S/X owners, it isn't much. It's still a bargain.

It is no bargain in Australia. The charge rate is AU$0.35c/kWh :-(

 

[dhcp]

I'm just happy that it will cut down on all the commercial car-service people I see at the superchargers in California The ones in the Bay Area always have someone that has commercial license plates "abusing" the free charging. Using it for a commercial service wasn't exactly in the "spirit" of supercharging.

I wonder if they have some kind of stats that say that 20% of the overall charger use is by 1% of the owner population.

 

[Candleflame]

It is no bargain in Australia. The charge rate is AU$0.35c/kWh :-(

i was gonna say. in Aus and some USA states charging is definetly more expensive than driving a diesel.

 

[BayArea_David]

Please, no free charging or annual free KWhs. I don't know why people expect free charging for EVs.
We all pay for gasoline for ICEs. Will you ask ICE dealers for free gasoline for life?!

Faster charging, more charging stalls/locations, and no free charging. Embrace the M3 seismic waves.

 

[JeffK]

Will you ask ICE dealers for free gasoline for life?!

They've done free gas deals...

You know, in the long run, electrons from the sun are going to be easier to capture than dead dinosaurs...

 

[Trips]

Don't forget about loyalty programs that could provide free credits. I was talking to someone that is fairly high up in a chain that has supercharges on their properties. I asked them when they were going to start giving the option for charging credits vs their current gas discount program. They said that it is certainly something to keep an eye out for when paid charging comes along. Based on their current gas program I could earn 1,200 to 1,500 miles a year for the Model 3.