Watched a segment on PBS Newshour this evening that mentioned an invention by a Greek scientist that was able to turn water into power. Would certainly want to see this invention validated for obvious reasons. When I tried to view the segment on the video version online, it wasn't there. If you have xfinity, fast forward to 34:14 to view this coverage. Not the only person that appears to have noticed this discrepancy between the cable version and the online version.
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PBS Newshour - Science "Water to Power"
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The person interviewed in the Tesla is George Schoell with Galaxy Energy. Company is located in Southern Germany.
iwannam3
Active Member
Water is burned hydrogen. You can break it and split it into H2 & O2 and burn it to create LESS energy than it took to break it. No process is 100% efficient. Even if it was you would not have excess energy to use. I am ashamed of PBS promoting FAKE science.
nwdiver
Well-Known Member
*sigh* I really hope someone at PBS loses their job over that. I was optimistic this was a more efficient form of electrolysis... nope... more free energy BS. What... is... wrong... with.... people?
To save you the time... here is a synopsis; Water goes in => 'MAGIC' HAPPENS => Energy + Water come out. IT'S NONSENSE!!
I'm sure it wasn't Hari Screevinasans story but even he should be ashamed for leading into it. You don't need to be a physicist to understand this is nonsense!
I'll never forget my first day of operator training... our physics instructor... the first thing... the very first thing he wrote on the board was. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A FREE LUNCH. We need more science teachers like that.
This is a new low PBS... what's next? A debate over global warming? Pathetic
We need to focus on real solutions like Solar PV and EVs.... not false hope with magic.
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nwdiver
Well-Known Member
I really like the Newshour. I was very upset when Gwen Ifill passed. We need good journalists now more than ever. I encourage everyone to send a message to them that this kind of sloppy reporting is beneath them and cannot be tolerated. PBS feedback.
This is what I sent.
'I am deeply disappointed in your coverage of the 'free energy' device in Greece. You don't have to be a physicist to understand that you can NOT extract energy from water. You can store it as Hydrogen... but it's not a source! In this post-fact era we're counting on your journalistic integrity. Last night you failed.'
This is what I sent.
'I am deeply disappointed in your coverage of the 'free energy' device in Greece. You don't have to be a physicist to understand that you can NOT extract energy from water. You can store it as Hydrogen... but it's not a source! In this post-fact era we're counting on your journalistic integrity. Last night you failed.'
Here is a transcript of the "news" report
MALCOLM BRABANT: Physicist Petros Zografos spent 30 years trying to work out how, using minimal energy, he could break down the water molecule, H20, into its component parts, hydrogen and oxygen. Now he thinks he`s cracked it, with this, his mini power station, which he hopes will help reverse global pollution.
PETROS ZOGRAFOS, Physicist (through translator): Since I have children and grandchildren — my son has just made me a grandfather — I cannot go on watching this planet being so violently abused.
MALCOLM BRABANT: George Schoell, from Southern Germany, whose company makes solar panels, is interested in helping develop and market the invention. He headed out of Athens for a nearby Greek island to inspect it for the first time.
GEORGE SCHOELL, Businessman: For the people, this would be exactly what they want, exactly what they can use at home. But for the big energy suppliers, this will be a problem, because if anyone takes his own energy, no one will need the grid anymore.
MALCOLM BRABANT: In the inventor`s modest home, there was a last-minute technical briefing beneath a bust of Zeus, the ancient Greek god who dispensed power through thunderbolts.
Then colleague Pantelis Kotsianis gave a demonstration.
PANTELIS KOTSIANIS, Scientist: We have no wires, no external wires from the grid connected to the system, stand-alone, and reconnect later on to the mains, get off the grid, and then we will put the water from the glass into this tube, and within 40 seconds, we will have the power to power the whole house.
Right now, we`re off the grid. We have turned off the switch. We will prove that this connector has no power at all. Look, there`s no power on this connector.
So I`m putting some water slowly right now, and we just connect the mains right now to the machine. And, basically, you can just — well, basically can run the whole house and can turn on the TV and anything else you want right now.
MAN: How much power do you have? How much power do you have?
PANTELIS KOTSIANIS: We`re producing right now? It`s about 800 watts.
MALCOLM BRABANT: Which was enough to enable the inventor`s wife to prepare lunch. The average American house needs about 30,000 watts per hour.
PANTELIS KOTSIANIS: It`s a very brand-new technology, never existed before. We`re using frequencies. And with frequencies, you don`t have to use high power. You don`t need to use excessive energy, or really any energy at all, in order to get the fuel that you need, hydrogen.
Every rock or every bridge has a very specific resonance. When you vibrate a system at the specific frequency, which is the system`s frequency, that system would break. So, you don`t need force to do that.
MALCOLM BRABANT: It`s similar to the biblical story of trumpets destroying the walls of Jericho. This is the Acropolis in Athens, not Jericho, but the temples date from the same era.
It wasn`t a religious miracle that brought down Jericho`s walls, but sound waves from the trumpets. The inventor claims water can be unlocked in the same way.
There are three stages to this machine. The first is motion. The act of pouring of the water generates energy to start the resonance process. The second is oscillation. A new compound created by the inventor helps produce the hydrogen. The third is the exhaust system, where the only byproduct is room-temperature water vapor.
Despite having rich potential for renewal energy, Greece is heavily dependent upon fossil fuel. Much of its electricity comes from lignite, a peat-like substance, transported along conveyor belts from vast open cast mines.
Lignite is one of the world`s most polluting fuels, and, according to environmentalists, these plants are responsible for ailments, such as cancer, that cost the Greek health service up to $4 billion a year.
PETROS ZOGRAFOS (through translator): The sea used to provide us with all the fish we needed, but now I can see that life is diminishing on the planet, and it`s human beings are responsible for this. So I would really like this invention to be made available worldwide, so that it may halt further destruction of the planet as much as possible.
MALCOLM BRABANT: The science employed by Zografos has been validated by a committee of Greek physicists. Independent engineer Lampis Tomasis was a skeptic, but is now a believer.
LAMPIS TOMASIS, Engineer: I used spectrum analyzers. I used analyzers for the exhaust fumes. I used oscilloscopes and the other instruments as well. And I am convinced now that the instrument is working perfectly, doesn`t produce any dirt to the environment, and the only product produced is hydrogen, which is very clean for the environment.
MALCOLM BRABANT: Two hours after the machine was started, it needed topping up.
PANTELIS KOTSIANIS: We added some fuel to our system, so we depleted it with running everything in the house.
MALCOLM BRABANT: The team behind this project has rejected several multimillion-dollar offers to the rights to the invention, because they want to control what happens to it.
But they are fairly optimistic, and they are talking in terms of this possibly being the start of a new age. But there has to be a word of caution, because there have been several great Greek innovations in the past that have died at birth. They have been strangled by red tape and vested interests.
To obtain an independent assessment, we went to the Niels Bohr Institute in Copenhagen, named after one of the most important contributors to modern physics and the atomic age.
JACOB TRIER FREDERIKSEN, Niels Bohr Institute: I`m extremely skeptical of the way that it allegedly is functioning. I seriously doubt that there is excess energy from this device.
MALCOLM BRABANT: Jacob Frederiksen says the invention would be fantastic, if true. But first, he says, the science must be subjected to peer review, and that other experts need to be able to reproduce the results.
He believes that using frequencies to split hydrogen and oxygen is valid, but doubts the process can yield sufficient extra power.
JACOB TRIER FREDERIKSEN: Let`s assume we have this huge molecule of water, right, oxygen and hydrogen bound together in the water molecule. In order to split this, you really need to pull it apart, I mean, split these atoms apart. Now you have spent quite a lot of energy to split them. You can regain part of that energy by combining them by combustion processes.
You already spent the energy to split it, and you only get part of that energy back when you recombine it by burning the hydrogen. And that difference will not be a positive one.
MALCOLM BRABANT: In response, the Greeks say they will happily agree to a peer review once they have obtained a worldwide patent. They also insist their system doesn`t conform to the standard rules of electrolysis, or separating of hydrogen and oxygen.
George Schoell, the German businessman, headed towards home, satisfied with the Greeks` claims that their process uses minimal energy and is highly efficient. He predicted that, if all went well, mini home power stations could go into production within a year.
GEORGE SCHOELL: I was really kind of — about this invention, and it was 100 — or over 100 percent fulfilled. And I`m really satisfied that I did this trip, because I didn`t expect that the machine runs as we have seen as it runs.
PETROS ZOGRAFOS (through translator): I want this invention to spread as far as possible, to the last village in Africa, where the children don`t have electric light to read and study by.
MALCOLM BRABANT: The next test for Petros Zografos and his team will be to build a 200-kilowatt machine, about the size of two fridges, to light up a small Greek island fueled by the surrounding water. He hopes to stage a trial within the next six months.
For the “PBS NewsHour,” I`m Malcolm Brabant in Greece.
MALCOLM BRABANT: Physicist Petros Zografos spent 30 years trying to work out how, using minimal energy, he could break down the water molecule, H20, into its component parts, hydrogen and oxygen. Now he thinks he`s cracked it, with this, his mini power station, which he hopes will help reverse global pollution.
PETROS ZOGRAFOS, Physicist (through translator): Since I have children and grandchildren — my son has just made me a grandfather — I cannot go on watching this planet being so violently abused.
MALCOLM BRABANT: George Schoell, from Southern Germany, whose company makes solar panels, is interested in helping develop and market the invention. He headed out of Athens for a nearby Greek island to inspect it for the first time.
GEORGE SCHOELL, Businessman: For the people, this would be exactly what they want, exactly what they can use at home. But for the big energy suppliers, this will be a problem, because if anyone takes his own energy, no one will need the grid anymore.
MALCOLM BRABANT: In the inventor`s modest home, there was a last-minute technical briefing beneath a bust of Zeus, the ancient Greek god who dispensed power through thunderbolts.
Then colleague Pantelis Kotsianis gave a demonstration.
PANTELIS KOTSIANIS, Scientist: We have no wires, no external wires from the grid connected to the system, stand-alone, and reconnect later on to the mains, get off the grid, and then we will put the water from the glass into this tube, and within 40 seconds, we will have the power to power the whole house.
Right now, we`re off the grid. We have turned off the switch. We will prove that this connector has no power at all. Look, there`s no power on this connector.
So I`m putting some water slowly right now, and we just connect the mains right now to the machine. And, basically, you can just — well, basically can run the whole house and can turn on the TV and anything else you want right now.
MAN: How much power do you have? How much power do you have?
PANTELIS KOTSIANIS: We`re producing right now? It`s about 800 watts.
MALCOLM BRABANT: Which was enough to enable the inventor`s wife to prepare lunch. The average American house needs about 30,000 watts per hour.
PANTELIS KOTSIANIS: It`s a very brand-new technology, never existed before. We`re using frequencies. And with frequencies, you don`t have to use high power. You don`t need to use excessive energy, or really any energy at all, in order to get the fuel that you need, hydrogen.
Every rock or every bridge has a very specific resonance. When you vibrate a system at the specific frequency, which is the system`s frequency, that system would break. So, you don`t need force to do that.
MALCOLM BRABANT: It`s similar to the biblical story of trumpets destroying the walls of Jericho. This is the Acropolis in Athens, not Jericho, but the temples date from the same era.
It wasn`t a religious miracle that brought down Jericho`s walls, but sound waves from the trumpets. The inventor claims water can be unlocked in the same way.
There are three stages to this machine. The first is motion. The act of pouring of the water generates energy to start the resonance process. The second is oscillation. A new compound created by the inventor helps produce the hydrogen. The third is the exhaust system, where the only byproduct is room-temperature water vapor.
Despite having rich potential for renewal energy, Greece is heavily dependent upon fossil fuel. Much of its electricity comes from lignite, a peat-like substance, transported along conveyor belts from vast open cast mines.
Lignite is one of the world`s most polluting fuels, and, according to environmentalists, these plants are responsible for ailments, such as cancer, that cost the Greek health service up to $4 billion a year.
PETROS ZOGRAFOS (through translator): The sea used to provide us with all the fish we needed, but now I can see that life is diminishing on the planet, and it`s human beings are responsible for this. So I would really like this invention to be made available worldwide, so that it may halt further destruction of the planet as much as possible.
MALCOLM BRABANT: The science employed by Zografos has been validated by a committee of Greek physicists. Independent engineer Lampis Tomasis was a skeptic, but is now a believer.
LAMPIS TOMASIS, Engineer: I used spectrum analyzers. I used analyzers for the exhaust fumes. I used oscilloscopes and the other instruments as well. And I am convinced now that the instrument is working perfectly, doesn`t produce any dirt to the environment, and the only product produced is hydrogen, which is very clean for the environment.
MALCOLM BRABANT: Two hours after the machine was started, it needed topping up.
PANTELIS KOTSIANIS: We added some fuel to our system, so we depleted it with running everything in the house.
MALCOLM BRABANT: The team behind this project has rejected several multimillion-dollar offers to the rights to the invention, because they want to control what happens to it.
But they are fairly optimistic, and they are talking in terms of this possibly being the start of a new age. But there has to be a word of caution, because there have been several great Greek innovations in the past that have died at birth. They have been strangled by red tape and vested interests.
To obtain an independent assessment, we went to the Niels Bohr Institute in Copenhagen, named after one of the most important contributors to modern physics and the atomic age.
JACOB TRIER FREDERIKSEN, Niels Bohr Institute: I`m extremely skeptical of the way that it allegedly is functioning. I seriously doubt that there is excess energy from this device.
MALCOLM BRABANT: Jacob Frederiksen says the invention would be fantastic, if true. But first, he says, the science must be subjected to peer review, and that other experts need to be able to reproduce the results.
He believes that using frequencies to split hydrogen and oxygen is valid, but doubts the process can yield sufficient extra power.
JACOB TRIER FREDERIKSEN: Let`s assume we have this huge molecule of water, right, oxygen and hydrogen bound together in the water molecule. In order to split this, you really need to pull it apart, I mean, split these atoms apart. Now you have spent quite a lot of energy to split them. You can regain part of that energy by combining them by combustion processes.
You already spent the energy to split it, and you only get part of that energy back when you recombine it by burning the hydrogen. And that difference will not be a positive one.
MALCOLM BRABANT: In response, the Greeks say they will happily agree to a peer review once they have obtained a worldwide patent. They also insist their system doesn`t conform to the standard rules of electrolysis, or separating of hydrogen and oxygen.
George Schoell, the German businessman, headed towards home, satisfied with the Greeks` claims that their process uses minimal energy and is highly efficient. He predicted that, if all went well, mini home power stations could go into production within a year.
GEORGE SCHOELL: I was really kind of — about this invention, and it was 100 — or over 100 percent fulfilled. And I`m really satisfied that I did this trip, because I didn`t expect that the machine runs as we have seen as it runs.
PETROS ZOGRAFOS (through translator): I want this invention to spread as far as possible, to the last village in Africa, where the children don`t have electric light to read and study by.
MALCOLM BRABANT: The next test for Petros Zografos and his team will be to build a 200-kilowatt machine, about the size of two fridges, to light up a small Greek island fueled by the surrounding water. He hopes to stage a trial within the next six months.
For the “PBS NewsHour,” I`m Malcolm Brabant in Greece.
BluestarE3
Active Member
Well, I'm glad they at least had the guy from the Niels Bohr Institute express his scepticism about the device. However, it was more of a footnote to the junk science story which shouldn't have been given any credence in the first place.
BluestarE3
Active Member
The web page for yesterday's broadcast now has the following comment:
nwdiver
Well-Known Member
That almost makes it worse. It creates a sense of false balance and gives validity to junk science. It's like having a global warming debate when in reality there is no debate. That's where PBS totally failed their viewers. It's their job as journalists to filter out the nonsense and present fact. There's no excuse... they failed.
The comments section is AWESOME... for once it's not making me completely lose hope in humanity. I hope they don't ignore this... they need to apologize and fix this with a retraction and why it's nonsense.
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Another red flag for this (and other bunk inventions) is their statement that they'll release details once the "worldwide patent" is granted. This is BS for a number of reasons:
1. (most important) once the patent is FILED, their protected status is guaranteed if the patent gets granted. The whole point of patents was to share invention progress, while still rewarding the inventor. So if someone else implemented it, and it worked, that's just more evidence for the patent to be granted. In other words, keeping it secret is BS if they've applied for a patent.
2. In many places (including the EU where they are), the patent application becomes public after 18 months from filing anyway.
3. There is no such thing as a worldwide patent. It can cost a very large amount to patent in just a few major jurisdictions.
1. (most important) once the patent is FILED, their protected status is guaranteed if the patent gets granted. The whole point of patents was to share invention progress, while still rewarding the inventor. So if someone else implemented it, and it worked, that's just more evidence for the patent to be granted. In other words, keeping it secret is BS if they've applied for a patent.
2. In many places (including the EU where they are), the patent application becomes public after 18 months from filing anyway.
3. There is no such thing as a worldwide patent. It can cost a very large amount to patent in just a few major jurisdictions.
nwdiver
Well-Known Member
That's a good first step but it's not enough... they spent airtime spreading ignorance... now they need to fix it with some knowledge.
Simply a scheduling error. That segment was slated to be broadcast on April 1st.
Shameful feature. It did seem like a good April Fool's piece. Reporters and editors should find someone with expertise if they don't understand basic energy numbers (watts, time, etc.). This was basic "general science" in may day. Here is the quote:
"MALCOLM BRABANT: Which was enough to enable the inventor`s wife to prepare lunch. The average American house needs about 30,000 watts per hour."
I'm guessing it was confused with 30KWH per DAY (based on 901KWH avg. per month, per the U.S. Energy Information Agency).
"MALCOLM BRABANT: Which was enough to enable the inventor`s wife to prepare lunch. The average American house needs about 30,000 watts per hour."
I'm guessing it was confused with 30KWH per DAY (based on 901KWH avg. per month, per the U.S. Energy Information Agency).
nwdiver
Well-Known Member
I predict Trump taps Malcolm Brabant as his science advisor....
They did a "mea culpa" at the end of todays (Wednesday) newshour.
Another example of what is now being called the "post fact" age. Facts don't seem to matter any more- a return to the Dark Ages is at hand, if we allow it. BTW, how about the statement that an American house requires 30 kw. If you pull that 24 hours a day, that;'s 21.6 megawatt hours in a month, for an electric bill of $2500 even where juice is cheap. I don't think so.
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