Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

PCN at supercharger Kings Lynn despite reasonable efforts

VanillaAir_UK

Well-Known Member
Jun 17, 2019
8,259
5,776
Surrey, UK
I use to do that at my old gym - it was very often out of service so on those days I took a photo of the machine with the big out of service sign on it.

Unfortunately the gym was used by people with reduced mobility and techno challenged, and I often had to help if they looked if they were struggling. I hate to think what happened to those who mis entered the registration number. I could never remember RG or RJ (still can't) so had a photo on my phone to hand!
 

Jason71

Active Member
May 8, 2019
2,989
2,934
Shropshire
I use to do that at my old gym - it was very often out of service so on those days I took a photo of the machine with the big out of service sign on it.

Unfortunately the gym was used by people with reduced mobility and techno challenged, and I often had to help if they looked if they were struggling. I hate to think what happened to those who mis entered the registration number. I could never remember RG or RJ (still can't) so had a photo on my phone to hand!
same with pay and display if its broken. I always take a picture of the machine.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Garry TheBiz

Ex Cop

Member
Jun 19, 2021
13
44
King's Lynn
Short update regarding the appeal I lodged yesterday online for the charge my wife received, which included the 'PCN' reference for her friend so they could consider both cases together. That appeal is now showing as received and being processed - you re-enter your details on their website to check your appeal's status, which is at least quite simple.

Yesterday evening, my wife's friend asked me to enter all her information for her (she was having technical difficulties) and lodge an appeal against her charge. On entering her details, it says 'This parking charge notice has been cancelled'.

Hmm, it looks like appealing my wife's case has led to her friend's case being dropped without the need for her to appeal. I'm hoping the status of our appeal will also change to charge cancelled later today, too.

Curiouser and curiouser.
 

Tony Hoyle

Active Member
May 7, 2019
1,117
684
Stockport, UK
They don't want a fight, as it'd setup a precedent when they lost. These companies almost always back down under pressure - lots of people who just pay to use as a cash cow.
 

Jason71

Active Member
May 8, 2019
2,989
2,934
Shropshire
Short update regarding the appeal I lodged yesterday online for the charge my wife received, which included the 'PCN' reference for her friend so they could consider both cases together. That appeal is now showing as received and being processed - you re-enter your details on their website to check your appeal's status, which is at least quite simple.

Yesterday evening, my wife's friend asked me to enter all her information for her (she was having technical difficulties) and lodge an appeal against her charge. On entering her details, it says 'This parking charge notice has been cancelled'.

Hmm, it looks like appealing my wife's case has led to her friend's case being dropped without the need for her to appeal. I'm hoping the status of our appeal will also change to charge cancelled later today, too.

Curiouser and curiouser.
Maybe they read the forum and all the other places you have probably ranted about this and want you to shut the F up 🙂
The last thing they want is an organised effort against them.
 

Ex Cop

Member
Jun 19, 2021
13
44
King's Lynn
Maybe they read the forum and all the other places you have probably ranted about this and want you to shut the F up 🙂
The last thing they want is an organised effort against them.
You could have a point, there - update for today is that the charge I'm supposed to pay has changed.

They're heading in the right direction, but still no cigar.

IMG_20210623_105618368.jpg
 

Adopado

Active Member
Aug 19, 2019
4,178
3,142
Scotland
Geez, I can’t believe all the crap you all go through on the other side of the pond just to charge a Tesla?

Actually there are only a handful of Supercharger locations in the whole country that are in locations with this kind of pre-register parking nonsense. This is none standard! Thank goodness.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Stan930

Jason71

Active Member
May 8, 2019
2,989
2,934
Shropshire
Geez, I can’t believe all the crap you all go through on the other side of the pond just to charge a Tesla?
Do you not have this ANPR camera nonsense at all in the US at all? or just not at any superchargers? surprised Its not like businesses in the US to pass up a chance to fleece the public
 

Ex Cop

Member
Jun 19, 2021
13
44
King's Lynn
Been a bit busy lately so no update for a while, but here's what's been happening in the background:

The reduced charge that appeared when I checked the status of my appeal was explained when I received a nice letter from Civil Enforcement on 25th June stating that my appeal had been unsuccessful.

To recap, that appeal was mainly based on the vehicle being parked there by a legitimate customer and their signs saying that a parking permit must be obtained from reception where no permits exist.

The letter made no reference to anything I had said about the signage in the car park not matching what customers were supposed to actually do, or why they cancelled the 'twin' ticket that was issued to my wife's friend in exactly the same circumstances without her even appealing it (my wife's car can be seen following in their shot of her friend's car leaving on her ticket). What it did say was that 'There are many clear and visible signs displayed on the site' and they maintain the ticket was correctly issued in accordance with their terms and conditions.

The letter explained the drop to a £20 charge by Civil Enforcement invoking Paragraph 17.4 of the BPA code of practice, which says that if there is evidence that a legitimate customer has made a 'Major Keying Error' by either incorrectly entering their registration into the keypad or failing to do so at all, the issuing body should offer them the reduced, £20 charge. The letter concluded by saying that either not paying the £20 within 14 days or appealing the reduced charge would result in it being bumped back to £100.

Interestingly, the BPA website where you register your appeal once the ticket issuer has rejected the direct appeal to them, includes a number of case studies to help people decide whether or not to appeal, and one of them covers the keying error thing -


This deals with a legitimate customer who claimed to have entered their registration but got a ticket anyway. The parking company provided evidence that their records showed that the customer's registration wasn't entered into their terminal and, critically, that that the car park signs clearly stated that the full and correct vehicle registration had to be keyed into the terminal to qualify for free parking. That appeal was upheld and the ticket cancelled by POPLA because the parking company hadn't offered the reduced charge of £20 or checked to see if the customer had mis-keyed part of their registration.

In my case, however, there are no signs in the car park notifying customers of any need to key any details into any terminal and the original was issued due to breaching the 'Permit Holders Only' regulation, not 'Full and Correct Vehicle Registration to be Keyed into Terminal' requirement.

As such, even though it was very tempting to pay the £20 just to make Civil Enforcement go away, I appealed through the POPLA process using the unique code included on the appeal rejection letter.

That was on 27th June, and the status of my appeal is still showing that POPLA are waiting for the parking operator to provide their evidence, which I then get the opportunity to comment on. I would have expected Civil Enforcement to have sent in their evidence by now, unless of course, they have a huge backlog of POPLA appeals that they're spending a fortune in admin time trying to defend, or, heaven forbid, they don't actually have any evidence to counter my argument that their signs don't match their working practices.

My view of what's happening, in the light of the 'twin' ticket being cancelled after I included its unique reference number in my appeal without it even being challenged, is that Civil Enforcement hate getting appeals against their tickets as it damages their standing with the BPA, so are never prepared to uphold an appeal against a ticket they've issued.

Instead, they will always chance their arm by making a cynical offer of the reduced £20 charge for a 'keying error' even where their signs don't ask you to key in your reg and where someone has valid and evidenced reasons to have the ticket cancelled, in the hope that they will gratefully accept that offer and not appeal through POPLA.

That would explain why they cancelled my wife's friend's ticket without it being appealed - one less big red X against them with the BPA - and why I got offered the 'bargain price' of £20 for a keying error where the ticket should just have been cancelled due to their mistake in issuing it in the first place.

Anyway, I'll let you know the outcome when it finally gets resolved.
 

Zakalwe

Member
Oct 16, 2020
449
436
UK
CEL are, IIRC, are notorious for making it up as they go along. If I am correct, I think that they had their DVLA access removed as they were caught falsifying photo evidence.
The industry is rife with chancers.
 

Ex Cop

Member
Jun 19, 2021
13
44
King's Lynn
Chancers there certainly are.

The BPA's code of conduct recently had to be changed to prohibit parking patrol officers being paid bonuses based on the number of tickets issued as many were found to have worked out how to alter the timestamp on their handheld ticket machines to make it appear that vehicles they were ticketing had been parked beyond the allowed time when they hadn't.


CEL must have got their DVLA access back as they couldn't access vehicle owners' addresses without it.

As part of my appeal I did ask the BPA to reconsider their working relationship with CEL due to the obvious underhand tactics they've displayed in my case. If the BPA throws them out then they lose their access to DVLA so won't be able to operate. Let's hope...
 
  • Like
Reactions: init6

Rustybkts

Member
Feb 8, 2020
582
345
Leicestershire
I beat these semi legal thieves a couple of years ago by printing everything I could find mitigating their reasons to "fine me" regarding car parks in the area of the one I was "caught" at. I guess the pile of paperwork was too much to sift through. 🤣
 

Billbrown1982

TM3 LR 2021 | Red | FSD
Dec 21, 2020
412
223
Basildon
Generally these vultures always wait until the last second to submit their evidence.

You seem to have it all very well in hand but there are plenty of templates, guides and very helpful people on the money saving expert forums for your response to their "evidence"
 

NKPenfold

Member
Jul 21, 2021
8
11
Cambridge, UK
I'm new to the forum but just wanted to say thanks so much for this post.

I have a model 3 on order due for collection on 4th September and Kings Lynn is one of the superchargers I'm likely to use. I drove past a couple of weeks ago to check out where it was but was so petrified of all their threatening signs didn't drive down their driveway. Looks like my fears were well founded! What a bizarre attitude. Hardly a great welcome for their guests.
 

M3noob

Supporting Member
Supporting Member
Aug 22, 2019
686
509
Beyond the pale
I'm new to the forum but just wanted to say thanks so much for this post.

I have a model 3 on order due for collection on 4th September and Kings Lynn is one of the superchargers I'm likely to use. I drove past a couple of weeks ago to check out where it was but was so petrified of all their threatening signs didn't drive down their driveway. Looks like my fears were well founded! What a bizarre attitude. Hardly a great welcome for their guests.

Oh, go on! Stick some masking tape on your number plate and pluck 'em ;-)
 

Marc Roberts

Member
Jul 9, 2019
585
389
UK
I have a policy of always appealing these to POPLA even if I'm in the wrong. Maybe I'm an asshole.

*Edit*
I'm happy to pay for parking, but when parking is free unless you make an administrative error, screw those guys.

*Edit edit*
What they need to have, to make things fair when you get one of these invoices is an option for something like: "Was using the carpark legitimately, can provide evidence of my custom for the time in question." and then just waive the charge. But because they make most of their money through legitimate users making a mistake as opposed to people parking there and walking to town or something, they won't.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Rustybkts

Products we're discussing on TMC...

About Us

Formed in 2006, Tesla Motors Club (TMC) was the first independent online Tesla community. Today it remains the largest and most dynamic community of Tesla enthusiasts. Learn more.

Do you value your experience at TMC? Consider becoming a Supporting Member of Tesla Motors Club. As a thank you for your contribution, you'll get nearly no ads in the Community and Groups sections. Additional perks are available depending on the level of contribution. Please visit the Account Upgrades page for more details.


SUPPORT TMC
Top