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PCN at supercharger Kings Lynn despite reasonable efforts
- Thread starter FlyingHappily
- Start date
NKPenfold
Member
NKPenfold
Member
Really wanted to give this a thumbs up but can't see how I can. Perhaps it's because I'm new around here?!?
You're overthinking it ;-) Who's to stop you?
Just stick a temporary personalised plate on "UPY 0UR3"
How would they enforce it? They need the numberplate to apply to DVLA to get the registered keeper details. Without a valid number plate then they wouldn't be able to identify the vehicle.
Remember, these Private Parking Companies are normally small business that are only really interested in easy money. They are not going to get off their backsides to go inspecting cars for bits of black tape in the carparks.
Any owner of the land can stipulate the basis of the parking contract (or agent on their behalf). You choose to accept after reading their conditions by thence parking on their land. If the contract requires any parked vehicle to be displaying its registration plate then that's what you have to do. Otherwise they are entitled to make their charges. So you would be in exactly the same boat as people are presently. This is the theory of course ... and they most likely don't make that stipulation on their signage just now. So if your plate was covered they could presumably only nab you if they had someone on site to confirm your ID at the time... which, as you say, is unlikely.
Exactly. The PPC have neither the manpower or the interest to try and enforce any attempt to concel a reg plate. There's much easier money to be made from suckers who just pay up without realising they are paying profits to a private company.
Tempting, but hard to do as most have cameras covering the entrance. So one would have to stop whilst on the public road to put the covers in place. Difficult to explain to Mr Plod why you were driving with obscured plates.
This needs "James Bond" style rotating plates!
This needs "James Bond" style rotating plates!
JupiterMan
Active Member
this exists!
Home
License Plate Flipper allows you to TRULY rotate or flip between two license plates in 180 degree fashion unlike everything else out there that only folds down. As seen in movies like James Bond or the Transporter. This is meant to be used off road or show room for show cars and not meant for...
www.licenseplateflipper.com
quentinsf
Member
Just FYI, I got a PCN notice from the Dragonfly Hotel in King's Lynn when I charged there last week (for 18 mins). It was a dark, cold and damp night, and (not having seen this thread) I presumed that any warnings referred to the car park area rather than the charging area. There may have been signage there, but I didn't hang around outside seeking out anything other than a CCS connector.
Have appealed both the the hotel and to Civil Enforcement Ltd. Will see what happens.
Don't you love the way they give you a reduced fine as long as you pay within 14 days, and if you appeal, they warn you that the response will come by post and may take 14 days or so...
Have appealed both the the hotel and to Civil Enforcement Ltd. Will see what happens.
Don't you love the way they give you a reduced fine as long as you pay within 14 days, and if you appeal, they warn you that the response will come by post and may take 14 days or so...
Billbrown1982
TM3 LR 2021 | Red | FSD
Just FYI, I got a PCN notice from the Dragonfly Hotel in King's Lynn when I charged there last week (for 18 mins). It was a dark, cold and damp night, and (not having seen this thread) I presumed that any warnings referred to the car park area rather than the charging area. There may have been signage there, but I didn't hang around outside seeking out anything other than a CCS connector.
Have appealed both the the hotel and to Civil Enforcement Ltd. Will see what happens.
Don't you love the way they give you a reduced fine as long as you pay within 14 days, and if you appeal, they warn you that the response will come by post and may take 14 days or so...
Yeah won't get anywhere with Civil Enforcement I can almost guarantee, fingers crossed the hotel steps in. All these parking companies are vultures. I don't think i've ever heard a single case where they have gone oh ok, our bad. It ALWAYS goes to POPLA and they fight it tooth and nail to the bitter end.
We have just had the exact same experience at The Dragonfly Hotel but didn’t know about the risk of parking tickets at destination charge points therefore didn’t look at signs and didn’t register at their reception.
I disputed the original ticket but was informed today that it was denied and then called the hotel, to be told by a very gruff person that it is private property and I should have followed the signs.
We had two young children sleeping in the car and, to be honest, were just happy for the down time and simply didn’t notice signs anywhere!!
Either way, very disappointing to find out about this ongoing problem and to face a £100 parking fine. It really doesn’t feel like this treatment should be lawful.
I disputed the original ticket but was informed today that it was denied and then called the hotel, to be told by a very gruff person that it is private property and I should have followed the signs.
We had two young children sleeping in the car and, to be honest, were just happy for the down time and simply didn’t notice signs anywhere!!
Either way, very disappointing to find out about this ongoing problem and to face a £100 parking fine. It really doesn’t feel like this treatment should be lawful.
Have you guys tried appealing under the grounds of ‘disproportionate and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss’?
I’ve successfully appealed against all private parking charges when going via a independent appeals process. I must admit it’s been a few years since I’ve had to appeal so not fully up to date with it all.
I’ve successfully appealed against all private parking charges when going via a independent appeals process. I must admit it’s been a few years since I’ve had to appeal so not fully up to date with it all.
Rustybkts
Member
I assume you mean Supercharger and not destination charge points as the latter would suggest many hours being parked.
What I don't understand is that surely Tesla are paying the hotel for the plot so why are they so unhelpful in cancelling these clearly incorrect penalties? That hotel has a very large parking area with no other reason that I can see to need parking enforcement so I can only guess that the parking penalty kick back is lucrative.
If Tesla had thought this out, they could have written into the contract that charging has an hours grace period. But then I am thinking logically.......
Rustybkts
Member
Possibly true but if Tesla are paying for the use of a proportion of the parking spaces, any sensible contract would allow parking to be allowed in that area. After all, most of us are paying for the privilege and therefore abiding by the rules by being authorised.
The great pity is the way these "companies" act by penalising a user if they don't log in. Proof of charging can be easily used in mitigation but the way they ignore it and penalise with costs of more than a weeks food costs is appalling.
Their regulations if there are any require a complete overhaul but that isn't going to happen in the short term. Give it a few years as more unsuspecting motorists are caught out as EV's increase and something may be done then.
In the circumstances stated by the OP the hotel was closed and the car park empty of all cars except one broken down vehicle. It doesn't matter what signage is up prior to entering a car park except that it forms the basis of a contract, its not a fine for parking its a fine for a breach of contract, A breach of contract has to be proven by the company managing the car park and the only way to determine if a breach took place is in a court. If a court finds against you then they determine what the damages are - doesn't matter what the company ask for as a "fine" and the court has to determine that based on reasonable losses suffered by the owners of the car park. An empty and closed hotel suffers no loss.
Ignore the PCN and any communication from the company,, don't reply at all until they send you the notice before action mandatory letter, then challenge them to take you to court as you would like a court to decide. Most will give up at that stage.
You will receive lots of letters from the company indicating fines, CCJ, credit score affected etc etc etc - they are all false. If a court decides in their favour any fine imposed must be paid within 28 days - If you do this then you will have no CCJ, no damage to your credit rating and most likely a lower fine than the company were asking for.
Majority of the parking companies fail to send letters recorded delivery - so there is no record you received their first letter asking for payment, (This is why you ignore their letters) the second letter increases the fine or rather withdraws the discount offered for early payment - Now as they cant prove you received their first letter and the offer of a discount for early payment they have breached their code of practice - so their lawsuit fails.
These companies rely on ignorance of the law and fear induced to get you to pay, they want an easy life and to generate lots of money, they don't want to spend what they have on court processes that they are most likely to loose - indeed companies like ECP threaten a lot but don't take people to court as they have lost so many times - so they operate on win most loose a few because most people just pay their demand..
You will get letters for a few years but they eventually just go away - just never talk to them until the pre-action letter arrives and never appeal, most appeals are a waste of time and all you have done is confirmed you received their letter.
Ignore the PCN and any communication from the company,, don't reply at all until they send you the notice before action mandatory letter, then challenge them to take you to court as you would like a court to decide. Most will give up at that stage.
You will receive lots of letters from the company indicating fines, CCJ, credit score affected etc etc etc - they are all false. If a court decides in their favour any fine imposed must be paid within 28 days - If you do this then you will have no CCJ, no damage to your credit rating and most likely a lower fine than the company were asking for.
Majority of the parking companies fail to send letters recorded delivery - so there is no record you received their first letter asking for payment, (This is why you ignore their letters) the second letter increases the fine or rather withdraws the discount offered for early payment - Now as they cant prove you received their first letter and the offer of a discount for early payment they have breached their code of practice - so their lawsuit fails.
These companies rely on ignorance of the law and fear induced to get you to pay, they want an easy life and to generate lots of money, they don't want to spend what they have on court processes that they are most likely to loose - indeed companies like ECP threaten a lot but don't take people to court as they have lost so many times - so they operate on win most loose a few because most people just pay their demand..
You will get letters for a few years but they eventually just go away - just never talk to them until the pre-action letter arrives and never appeal, most appeals are a waste of time and all you have done is confirmed you received their letter.
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