PCN in electric car bay

[Doudeau]

I’d appreciate any thoughts on this one as I’m ready to appeal the response to my appeal but don’t want to waste my time.

My daughter parked our other EV (e208) in a local car park at 18:30 and the only available spaces were for electric cars so she used one. As the car park only requires payment up to 17:30 she didn’t need a parking ticket.

She didn’t have time (or experience) to plug-in the car and so left it there not charging. I wasn’t impressed with that - and told her so - as I don’t think you should use a charging space if you’re not using the charge point itself. I’m amazed how often I see this though.

She came back to find the parking ticket with the contravention being “71 - Parked in an electric vehicles’ charging place during restricted hours without charging”.

I appealed on the basis that it wasn’t during restricted hours but they’ve responded to say “The enforcement of the bay is not restricted to the hours of control for the car park”.

As there are no signs in the car park to say that the rules are different for those spaces (in the middle of the car park) I feel like taking it further. As said, I don’t agree she should have taken that space but I believe there should be a sign saying you can only use those spaces if you’re charging and/or a sign saying that restriction on those spaces are 24/7.

I’d appreciate anyone else’s experience or thoughts.

 

[Mrklaw]

first as you pointed out you shouldn’t park there, But you’ve spoken to your daughter so she’s hopefully learned. Effectively there were no parking spots available, not the only spots being for EVs - those aren’t parking spaces they’re charging spaces

Second I’d say it would depend on the wording. This is a new area still so you might get lucky on a techincality if the wording says something like ‘reserved for electric vehicles’ rather than ‘electric vehicle charging only’.

also (and not necessarily to condone) - if they’re 7kw slow chargers you could plug it in as a loophole if there isn’t anywhere else to stop and you don’t think you’ll be blocking anyone

 

[Jason71]

If there really are no signs that say that you can only park in those spaces when charging then I think you have a strong case. Legally but maybe not morally.
If there are signs that say the bays are restricted to those charging. If those signs don't have a time window on them I doubt you have a leg to stand on. I think it would be implicit that it is 24/7 unless it says otherwise on those signs.
And do you really disagree? Why would the rules for the EV bays not be 24/7? If I needed to charge and found unplugged cars clogging the bays would the time of day somehow make that less of a problem?
Maybe on this occasion just pay up and get on with the rest of your life.
P.S. not a lawyer

 

[muster39]

This sounds like a parking charge notice which relies on a contract with terms and conditions. The organisation demanding the parking charge however, has to make the contract terms and conditions available and clear. I suggest you contact Citizens Advice to see if they can give you some free and independent advice so you can consider whether to take it further.

 

[Casss]

Maybe on this occasion just pay up and get on with the rest of your life.

Unless they're trying to get hundreds out of you, this is the best advice IMO. Highly unlikely to be worth the hassle.

 

[GRiLLA]

A car park that enforces EV charging only? Including outside normal hours? Sounds excellent. Where is this so we can all commend the operators?

Sorry, what was your point?

 

[Cardo]

Have you looked at the sign covering the particular bay? I would imagine you’re going to have to end up paying (lawfully and morally) as these parking vultures tend to know what they’re doing in relation to signage.

I once parked in a charging bay when the post wasn’t working. I left the car unplugged (my car at the time wouldn’t lock the cable unless it detected a working charger at the other end) and kept popping back to see if one of the other bays had become free. Unfortunately, on one of those checks I found a PCN on my windscreen. You live and learn.

 

[Doudeau]

Sorry, what was your point?

That there is no signage that suggests that the electric car spots have different hours to every other space in the car park. The car park is primarily there for the council offices and so is otherwise a free-for-all for people parking in the evening.

No thanks for your sarky first para. I clearly wasn’t condoning what she did.

 

[Doudeau]

Thanks for (most of) the replies so far.

I’m going to pay and move on as recommended.

 

[Durzel]

Check the signage. If it says it’s prohibited, then it is. If it doesn’t, then it’s arguable that it wasn’t.

“She didn’t have time (or experience) to plug-in the car” is about the feeblest excuse I’ve ever heard, though, so it’s tough to rustle up much sympathy for what was clearly a deliberate and selfish act that many of us have had to suffer the consequences of.

And frankly you are downplaying it, if not condoning it, pointing out how often you see it done.

 

[Doudeau]

“She didn’t have time (or experience) to plug-in the car” is about the feeblest excuse I’ve ever heard, though, so it’s tough to rustle up much sympathy for what was clearly a deliberate and selfish act that many of us have had to suffer the consequences of.

She was going for a job interview.

I wasn’t making an excuse (which I believe couldn’t have been much more obvious in my OP) and my appeal was based on it not being restricted hours in the car park. I’m not in the habit of gifting £55 to my local council if she had the right to park the car there at that time.

I try to be positive and supportive in all my posts and reactions on this forum and so it’s a shame that others want to use it to exercise their keyboard warrior skills.

 

[candida]

….so it’s tough to rustle up much sympathy for what was clearly a deliberate and selfish act that many of us have had to suffer the consequences of.

And frankly you are downplaying it, if not condoning it, pointing out how often you see it done.

Hmmm. EV space blockers grind my gears too. Not murder, though, is it?

 

[Durzel]

She was going for a job interview.

I wasn’t making an excuse (which I believe couldn’t have been much more obvious in my OP) and my appeal was based on it not being restricted hours in the car park. I’m not in the habit of gifting £55 to my local council if she had the right to park the car there at that time.

I try to be positive and supportive in all my posts and reactions on this forum and so it’s a shame that others want to use it to exercise their keyboard warrior skills.

Apologies.

People just parking EVs in public charging bays is something I’ve experienced a few times, sometimes with the same car doing it more then once, with no apparent enforcement, and usually when I actually do really want to charge so it’s a topic that is shall we say “challenging” to me.

That said, I made multiple assumptions about your story based on my experience, without any evidence. Again, sorry, bad day.

All you can really do I think is check the signage and appeal based on that, It would be interesting to know what the restriction actually is, i.e. is it sufficient for the car to just be plugged in? What happens when the car finishes charging or stops charging abruptly due to an error - is there a breach of T&Cs at that point? I would be surprised if the restricted hours element supersedes everything though, as otherwise logically you could park across two bays or do anything else normally prohibited otherwise.

Seems like there’s nothing to be lost from trying to get it cancelled in any event.

 

[NewbieT]

Could you confirm this is a Council off street car park, if so which council? Worth having a quick read up in case others adopt similar regulations/bye laws.

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

Saying payment is required between x and y, or the reverse, it’s free between y and x usually has nothing to do with bay restrictions. You wouldn’t think a disabled bay became a general one when parking is free.

That said, the ticket has confused things, if it just said ‘parking in an electric bay without charging’ I don’t think the question would even be asked. You need to find terms that explicitly say charging is only required during payment hours otherwise it’s just semantics.

 

[Andywil]

I'm sure most ev drivers have been angered by being unable to get a charge because a bay was blocked by an ice or an ev not charging.

Ignorance of the law or not reading car park restrictions is no excuse for thoughtless behaviour.
She was wrong and should just pay up.

 

[Adopado]

I'm sure most ev drivers have been angered by being unable to get a charge because a bay was blocked by an ice or an ev not charging.

Ignorance of the law or not reading car park restrictions is no excuse for thoughtless behaviour.
She was wrong and should just pay up.

Yes, there's a slim chance she might get away with it due to signage etc but that doesn't get away from the fact (as acknowledged) that she was utterly out of order. I would pay up and expect daughter to refund me. Everybody has their own "need" for that parking space ... perhaps an interview is trumped by someone else needing a charge to enable them to attend a hospital for life saving treatment ... no excuses allowed I'm afraid!

 

[8rain]

With all the problems EV drivers have with being ICE’d, this entitled but-but-but nonsense is ridiculous. Pay the stinkin’ ticket, teach your daughter how not to be a bad guy, and be part of the solution. Be happy you’ve found someone willing to enforce their charging spaces, even though it means having to deal with constant hassles from people who want the rules to apply to everyone but themselves.

 

[GlynG]

All parking charging notices issued by a private company are in fact a breach of contract - and its only a court that can decide if a breach was committed and what degree of fine should be imposed - therefore - go and take a photo of the notice at the charger - For you to have been in breach of the contract then the contract has to be comprehensive enough to include vehicles using this charging bay must be charging or plugged in, parking is not allowed in any other circumstances - etc.
If its a council issued notice then react immediately and appeal if you think you have a case.

For a private company notice - If it isn't spelt out then ignore any notices or communication you get until the letter of action - ie - they intend to take you to court and this is the warning letter. Ignore all the letters of threats to give you a CCJ, credit rating damaged, could affect work prospects etc - all phoney. Don't even acknowledge any letter or use their appeal system. Its more trouble than its worth to take people to court if the wording isn't technically correct.

 

[Mrklaw]

Its not that black and white though is it? regular parking has had years to finesse wording and get that through to everyone. Lots will have to relearn with EV charging spots - espeically when those are *in* car parks but aren't technically parking spots.

While we're all learning, examples like the OPs can be useful to understand edge cases. If OPs daughter genuinely wasn't sure it wasn't special parking available for EVs - and it seems others have done the same - then adjustments in wording/signage can help educate those people and reduce the number of issues. Surely thats good for everyone? Better that things are clearer so people learn quickly, than having repeated clashes with people and then arguing about what the signs do or don't actually mean