PEM, motor gets too hot -- fans failed

[hcsharp]

Do you have the snow dam installed in this pic? A good filter would have to go around the top of that because it's sealed with foam along the bottom.

Funky ideas people .

Let's see what we are dealing with here...
View attachment 7733
The photo is taken from the right side with the wheel off. You can see the new fan and the new rollbar going around it. The surface below is the floor pan and above is the floor of the boot (aka trunk).

Given the limited space and the new rollbar that curves around the fan (and rotates up and down a few cms as the suspension flexes) some creativity will be required to do much more than a cloth covering.

As the new fan draws air in from either side and also from the centre if the idea is to channel air to the fan from a single standard car air filter the fan covering will need to box the fan without fowling the rollbar, and then collect air from below or above in some kind of duct. There is enough space for a good sized airfilter behind the fan and rollbar.

A proper air filter does sound best. For now the cloth cover is a good first-pass as I can get it done quickly and test if it throttles the fan too much.

 

[mgemmell]

Do you have the snow dam installed in this pic? A good filter would have to go around the top of that because it's sealed with foam along the bottom.

No snow dam. We did discuss it but this is Madrid we are talking about here. Snow falls for a day or two a year and rarely lasts more than a few hours.

 

[smorgasbord]

A proper air filter does sound best. For now the cloth cover is a good first-pass as I can get it done quickly and test if it throttles the fan too much.

My biggest concern with filtering is reduced air flow.

 

[Mischa]

Part 1, Install Roadster Blower Filter:
....
....
View attachment 3627

The property of this filter material is such that it can be pressed and pulled behind the sway bar as shown. It is a fairly snug fit, but can be worked into position by hand......

i am also still on thinking about a filter for the PEM blower.
@driver_EV you installed a self-designed Filter on the former Two-Blower design.

- What was your experience?
- How many miles/ km you used this solution?
- Did you let TM switch to the One-Blower design and did you add / keep your Filter with the new TM design as well?

cheers
Michael

 

[wycolo]

> Funky ideas, people

Tesla has done all the hard work for us- in the form of the "panel blower surround" box. To achieve any sort of effective air filtering we have to install this piece. And whatever fan/blower/rollbar goes with it (there are 3 different styles depending on model of Roadster).

The box can be sealed 100% with expanding foam injected into all cracks where air is now entering. Then a 4in dia hole can be drilled into the trunk floor, and all filtering handled within the trunk.

Or, holes could be drilled across the rear of the box and 'cabin air filters' installed somehow to cover these holes. The 2.0 box is 26in across so there is plenty of room.

Or, only the bottom openings are sealed with liquid foam, leaving air to enter only over the top edges of the box. Then a filter shelf could be fabricated that might contain 2 or more of these 'cabin air filters'. They could slide out to the rear, if the grill were removed (or hinged out of the way). In the Olds Oddyssey, etc they reportedly are mounted on slide-out frames. Check your local junkyard or GM dealership.

The cabin filters filter 100% on one pass as opposed to the home furnace filters which only partially filter, but on constant circulation.
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[mgemmell]

Tesla has done all the hard work for us- in the form of the "panel blower surround" box. To achieve any sort of effective air filtering we have to install this piece. And whatever fan/blower/rollbar goes with it (there are 3 different styles depending on model of Roadster).
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Makes sense. The Snow box is indeed a good start point and a place where the filters can be seen and replaced easily, such as the trunk, would be the best idea.

I need to get the snow box fitted.

 

[dhrivnak]

I was told by the service manager and the ranger that the fan upgrade is not for 1.5 models. That said I have not seen a problem with my Roadster until the temps hit 100+ a rareity for our area. At that point I did go into power limited mode for a while, but I was assured it was "normal". I did add some baffels to keep dirt from the reat tires out of the fan area. The Ranger said it could not hurt and the fix was under $10 so it is worth a try.

 

[frequencydip]

I was told by the service manager and the ranger that the fan upgrade is not for 1.5 models. That said I have not seen a problem with my Roadster until the temps hit 100+ a rareity for our area. At that point I did go into power limited mode for a while, but I was assured it was "normal".

It bugs me a bit that Tesla isn't addressing the overheating issues for 1.5s, in Los Angeles with temps only reaching in the 90s I'm geting power limited when driving spiritedly.

 

[driver_EV]

i am also still on thinking about a filter for the PEM blower.
@driver_EV you installed a self-designed Filter on the former Two-Blower design.

- What was your experience?
- How many miles/ km you used this solution?
- Did you let TM switch to the One-Blower design and did you add / keep your Filter with the new TM design as well?

cheers
Michael

Hi Mischa,
Sorry about the delay in responding, I have stopped getting emails on the TMC comments, and just saw this, as I was planning to update with my results.

Around 9000 miles running with my filter modification. I do not have exact figures handy, but I think it was near 5000 when I did the mod, and then a blower upgrade (to latest) was performed after 14,000 miles.

So the Rangers came and did the blower upgrade, removed my filter material, and installed the latest blower hardware.

Pics. of the dirty filter material that was removed, indicating all the leaves, dirt, stuff, that did NOT find it's way to the blowers nor the PEM:

And here is what the PEM looked like when they removed it prior to cleaning:

As you can see just a very light fine dust got through, but not enough to cause any temp issues yet.
The blowers were protected as well of course, so this was a successful project.

I now have the latest version PEM blowers, and have not put anything extra back in there.

Car has been running like this for going on 4000 miles now without issues, but temp power limit due to PEM being too hot, still has happened on occasion this summer.

I definitely think it was worth doing. The new blowers are louder, seem to be working harder, and I think did improve the PEM cooling some, but IMO air cooling is not the best solution for cooling the PEM. If an liquid cooled PEM is offered in the future, it would be pretty desirable.

I think I will "wait and see" if the latest configuration needs any help in the filter department.

 

[W.Petefish]

I shudder to think what mine will look like in a month or two. (annual service, or rather 6 month but +12500mi service)

 

[Eberhard]

I still face a lot of problem with overheating the PEM and reduced charging current. The reason is dirt. i got some tubes installed to make an emergency cleaning by pressured air possible. but it happened, that even my emergency plan stopped working. I had to go to the munic tesla store to get my PEM cleaned.

the only solution beside a liquid cooled PEM is air filtering or a redirection of the cooling air from the upper air inlets instead through the wheel housing.

With a working air filtering, the original blower combination may work as well.

 

[W.Petefish]

I'm with you on a liquid cooled PEM.

 

[TEG]

The rumor mill was buzzing about different battery packs, and motor upgrades, but nothing about PEM upgrades.
Hopefully they do something there, but I think the odds of that happening might be a little lower than some of the other things we heard might be coming.

 

[Doug_G]

The rumor mill was buzzing about different battery packs, and motor upgrades, but nothing about PEM upgrades.

Not quite true... the rumored motor upgrade included a PEM cooling upgrade.

 

[hcsharp]

Not quite true... the rumored motor upgrade included a PEM cooling upgrade.

I heard from a Tesla service manager yesterday (draw your own conclusions about accuracy) that they were trying a nitrogen gas cooling system for the PEM (lighter than liquid cooled) to go with the liquid cooled motor upgrade. He said it was a new PEM but not the same as the Model S PEM. He said they have 2 roadsters testing the system.

But the most interesting thing he said was that they're aiming for 0-60 time of under 2.5 sec that will rival the Veyron. It included a limited slip diff and different tires. The traction control is more advanced and allows the rear wheels to slip a tiny bit because you actually get more traction that way. He also qualified it by saying nothing is finalized yet and some of what he heard may turn out to be just more rumors.

The sad part is he thought it would probably be priced at about half of what most of us paid new for our roadsters.

 

[Tesla 940]

Half Price?

The sad part is he thought it would probably be priced at about half of what most of us paid new for our roadsters.

When I first read about a possible performance upgrade someone mentioned "pricey". I assume 50k - 75k. If everything that has been mentioned, including 2.5 second 0-60, could be purchased for $75k - I'll be one of the first. This possible upgrade is one of the few reasons I'm still working! While $75k is a lot - look at what people are paying for headlights, CF trim, sound proofing upgrades, etc.

 

[hcsharp]

When I first read about a possible performance upgrade someone mentioned "pricey". I assume 50k - 75k. If everything that has been mentioned, including 2.5 second 0-60, could be purchased for $75k - I'll be one of the first. This possible upgrade is one of the few reasons I'm still working! While $75k is a lot - look at what people are paying for headlights, CF trim, sound proofing upgrades, etc.

It would be out of my price range but if it truly rivals the all-wheel-drive supercars for 0-60 like the Veyron and a couple others then they will sell a lot of this upgrade. In fact I predict it will be so popular that used Roadsters will increase significantly in value as a result.

 

[frequencydip]

It would be out of my price range but if it truly rivals the all-wheel-drive supercars for 0-60 like the Veyron and a couple others then they will sell a lot of this upgrade. In fact I predict it will be so popular that used Roadsters will increase significantly in value as a result.

+1 values should go up if for a used roadster and this upgrade you would have a car that can do 0-60 in 2.5 and not over heat for $140, as a track car this would dominate even 911 turbos...

I also wonder if the upgrade would work for all roadsters, the 1.5 and 2.5 PEMs have significantly different designs. If they replace everything back there it probably doesn't matter..

Nitrogen gas? are we talking liquid nitrogen? Can anyone theorize how nitrogen gas would be used for cooling without having to add nitrogen tanks on a periodic basis?

 

[wycolo]

> a nitrogen gas cooling system for the PEM (lighter than liquid cooled) to go with the liquid cooled motor upgrade. He said it was a new PEM but not the same as the Model S PEM. He said they have 2 roadsters testing the system. [hcsharp]

They would have to stuff a heat exchanger (N>coolant) under the hood or somewhere. It could be linear and even flexible. Without taking the PEM apart it could be placed in a sealed bag and N blown thru it. If pressurized a bit it would help cooling at high altitudes where we now take a hit. Even N cools better under increased pressure. Looks like a 'tire' could be clamped over the motor and N blown thru. Do we see the possibility of a low-cost DIY Nitrogen upgrade in the works here?
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[strider]

That's a fair price for those specs. It's something I would look to do in a few years - I normally get the itch for a new car every 5 years so in this case I could do the upgrade in lieu of a new car.