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PEM second failure

Discussion in 'Roadster' started by guillaumef, Oct 4, 2018.

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  1. dhrivnak

    dhrivnak Active Member

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    I do know there are differences two being a separate fan with a high intake to avoid leaves and dirt so the PEM stays a lot cleaner and thus cooler.
     
  2. sethr

    sethr CPO Roadster #1089

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    Also discussed elsewhere on this forum, IIRC, the 1.5 PEM connectors were "aircraft grade", the 2.x's got inferior connectors. My Roadster just got towed to the SC because the PEM/motor fan, replaced a bit more than 2 months ago, has failed; can't charge due to battery overtemp because of that. Also, the brake pedal actuated part of the brake lights has failed, on the same day no less. Another cheaper part? And the TPMS system on 1.5's is more robust as well. I wish I'd gotten a 1.5....
     
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  3. backmost

    backmost Member

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    I was dead set on a 2.x until reading more into all those issues. Probably would've gotten one anyway but a good deal came on my 1.5/3.0 and I just couldn't pass it up.
     
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  4. m0rph

    m0rph Member

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    So, even € 60k in new parts is not enough to fix my Roadster. The car broke down again after only 150km. New motor sounds weird and accelerating 0-100 km/h takes around 8 seconds. :( :( :(
     
  5. X.l.r.8

    X.l.r.8 Supporting Member

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    That’s about the worst case of failure I could imagine. ^^
    I can only assume they never found the real problem in the first place
     
  6. sethr

    sethr CPO Roadster #1089

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    Update on my Roadster's woes (I must have jinxed it), as the very PEM connector I was referring to in my post above has burnt out, as well as the "CIC board inside the PEM". Whatever that is: the technician didn't know what it was. They will be send the board to be refurbished. (Brake lights haven't been looked at since they already took the PEM out). The tech also said the 1.5 connector is a different size and can't be used, plus the wires are a heavier gauge. I asked about using some other, better connector like Gruber offers, for the repair - nope. Sure wish they would be a little flexible....
     
  7. guillaumef

    guillaumef Member

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    That is the kind of situation I was scared of in the first place...

    Maybe in CA or other dense Roadster market they may be able to fix problems faster and better, but in market with practically no roadsters like mine, might be better to skip the car.o_O
     
  8. X.l.r.8

    X.l.r.8 Supporting Member

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    I expected to do all the work myself, refurbishing the PEM looks no worse to replacing the plastic water coolant pipes on a Porsche V8, or head gaskets on a subaru. I don't have the exact percentage of cars with PEM repairs but they migrate to these pages pretty quickly, thankfully they are becoming understood slowly but if your paying someone else to turn the spanners you may find it better to look at a different car.
     
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  9. m0rph

    m0rph Member

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    I've decided to let her go. Totally unreliable, 2 years waiting for a battery that does not exist yet, knowledge at local SeCs is zero, etc...
    My lawyer will try to make them buy the car back, or swap for a Model 3 performance. This is the beginning of the end of my ownership.
     
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  10. Easpiring

    Easpiring Member

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    I got the PEM of my 2010 2.5 sport rebuilded by Dirk Hansen just south of the Danish German border.

    Kontaktformular - Dirk Hansen Elektro- und Windtechnik GmbH

    He is the European affiliation with Gruber, so performs the same Gruber PEM rebuild for around 4K euros. Highly recommend, nice guy and also a roadster driver:)
    My PEM now never goes above 42 C driving in hot summer days with hard performance driving. Runs like a dream.
    Before it was serviced by tesla and always knocking at 55-60 C with the fan pounding after a few accelerations.
    Just my 2 cc
     

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  11. m0rph

    m0rph Member

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  12. DanielFriederich

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    The 1.5 PEM uses stronger IGBTs (different type than the 2.0 / 2.5 er PEMs and there are smaller differences too: 2.0 PEM, 2.5 PEM and universal PEM for 2.x) and the layout is much different too.

    A PEM replacement (completely overworked PEM) won't show up imo since it's more or less standard electronics (typical inverter electronic circuit which is also used as a rectifier when charging) - 1.5 uses part of the motor coil when charging, 2.x not! and the "heart" is not the PEM but the circuit boards in the front which contain the software. PEM is digitally controlled since in the beginning of the development the first prototype was analogically controlled and sometimes the electronics just went crazy leaving the car not drivable at all.
    A stronger car (stronger motor e.g.) would demand a complete new layout of the PEM and battery too and therefore a new software... That won't happen; we are right now maybe 2000 Roadster drivers left and maybe 500 might be interested in such an upgrade... that's a no brainer that development and production costs would cause an immense price for it. For that money I would rather go for the new Roadster ;)

    The most common failure we see is the insulation between the IGBTs and the cooling plates deteriorating and therefore getting shorts between the electric parts and the PEM chassis. There are several companies meanwhile dealing with that issue and it's a typical electronics repair job which needs some hand skills and some (basic) electronic knowledge. But it's not rocket science at all!

    There are two main types of replacement for the insulation: ceramic stripes (had them, one got broken and heavy damage - blown IGBTs - was the result 4.5k Euro repair) and insulation stripes (foil, which I use now) with slightly better heat transfer ability than the original material (I would go for that...). A replacement PEM directly from Tesla still uses the original type of insulation and therefore the problem still might occur.
    Proactive revision to a new insulation makes sense because it will cost you much less than replacing blown IGBTs.... (been there...)

    There are some issues with the 1.5er batteries cause the connections are rivets and not welded like the later 2.x. Those rivets might get loose over time and therefore you will get bad connections inside a sheet...
    I have been told just this week by my SEC in Frankfurt Germany that there is now a replacement battery (not the 3.0 but an revised 2.0) for 16k Euro incl. labour which sounds a fair price to me...
    Like Gruber there are several companies now taking sheets apart and doing excellent repairs if for example a cell gets bad, so this is an alternative choice to go for...

    Other parts on the roadster are down to earth and some can even be replaced with Lotus parts (mirrors, brakes).

    Suspension can be overworked by Bilstein. A new set from Tesla is hard to get meanwhile!

    Other parts are still obtainable. So I wouldn't worry too much...
    What makes me worry though is body parts since there is the rumor that the storage in the Netherlands will be emptied up this year... And besides smaller aftermarket parts like the rear lights e.g. I am not aware of a company making replacements... Meanwhile I even consider buying a broken down Roadster for having parts in stock....
     
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  13. DanielFriederich

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    Warden_Clyfe (Conrad B.) in the mid of Germany is also doing PEM repairs and some other jobs on the Roadster ;)
     
  14. m0rph

    m0rph Member

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    @DanielFriederich - do you have more information on the "revised 2.0 battery for 16k"? More precise, when did you hear about this? It seems that some SeC's and some countries are better informed than others...
     
  15. DanielFriederich

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    it was just last week, SEC Frankfurt, Germany
     
  16. ICON

    ICON Member

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    word of mouth ...heresay ?
     
  17. DanielFriederich

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    No. Statement by the chief engineer of service center. So I assume this information is official.
     
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  18. Marius

    Marius Member

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    Thinking about reason behind this.
    Half a year ago I ordered a 3.0 battery which costs 35.000 euro and 2 years delivery time. At that time I could also change to a refurbished 2.0 pack but also for 35.000 euro and delivery time 3 months.
    If they lower the price with more than 50% for the 2.0 pack now, it most likely means that the 3.0 will not come for a long time. Probably this 16.000 euro is to keep the Roadster community happy since the upgrade is not available anymore and they must deliver something for the owners who bought the guaranty of renewal 9 years ago.
     
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  19. DanielFriederich

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    Talked to the Roadster owner who ordered the pack for 16.1 k.... it will (hopefully) arrive in the next few weeks...
    he bought a bricked Roadster and ordered the V3.0 waiting for it now almost 2 years...

    I would have killed myself having bought a Roadster not able to drive it for that amount of time... oh wait... let me rephrase that... I would have killed.... SCRAMBLED..... "how do you plead? guilty?!".....
     
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  20. Mark77a

    Mark77a Member

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    Do you think he got a special deal at 16k euro for the 2.0 battery because of the 2 year wait on the 3.0 battery ?
    .. Or .. that 16k euro is the list price for a replacement 2.0 battery, available to anyone ?
     
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