PEPCO electrical rates - MD

[ilg]

Any owners out there in the PEPCO service area of MD with advice on getting the cheapest power for charging?

Since we got scheduled charging on our S, we've been charging after midnight, thinking we were getting better rates. Turns out, we don't have time-of-use rates (I was originally told we did), and PEPCO is telling me that they no longer offer that plan. The only way to get tou rates is to join their pilot program for plug-in vehicles, which also REQUIRES that you buy and install a specific L2 charger that talks to their meter and only puts out 30 amps. After you spend several thousand dollars getting that done, you get marginally better rates, effectively putting your break-even point a few decades down the road.

Talking to PEPCO is, of course, incredibly frustrating. I keep getting bounced around to different people and hearing very different things about the available rate plans and eligibility.

Is there anything to be done?

 

[Ven Rala]

I looked into this too. There are 2 options: one is a whole house time of use rate and the other is to have a separate meter in a L2 charging station. The second meter will NOT be placed on a 14-50 outlet (I already asked).
Though the time of use rates at night are marginally better than what I already pay, the daytime rates are highway robbery (as high as 18 cents/kWh) so obviously the whole house time of use makes no sense and you have to get a L2 charger (or they will give you one and charge you only 1/2 price: $600!) and the you can have just car charging with time of use.
So basically, thanks for nothing Pepco.

 

[JST]

Wait, Pepco incompetent? I don't believe it.

 

[kendallpb]

Wait, Pepco incompetent? I don't believe it.

ROFL...seriously. Also, their pilot program isn't available to folks with solar (like me).

 

[ilg]

Wait, Pepco incompetent? I don't believe it.

Wait a minute! I never said they were incompetent... I just strongly implied it. :wink:

 

[achaar]

ilg,

I signed up for the pilot program, but I didn't have to pay anything. I already had my HPWC installed, so they just came out and installed a sub meter so that the wall charger pulls power thru it. Rates are definitely higher from noon to 8 PM on weekdays, but I almost never charge during those times. There was no cost to me to do this, they just installed 2 weeks ago, but so far, so good. Rates are as follows:

	Summer	Winter
Distribution	$0.04137	$0.02460
Generation
Peak	$0.14080	$0.13998
Off Peak	$0.3118	$0.03608
Transmission	$0.00605	$0.00605

 

[Ride Long]

Wait a minute! I never said they were incompetent... I just strongly implied it. :wink:

I beg to differ. I certainly get your point, but Pepco is not incompetent, merely a monopolist acting like, well, a monopolist. Their defiance of things like net-metering, time-of-use plans and the like mean that current management is determined to squeeze every last dime out of their current monopoly position. Monopolies never change, but they are removed occasionally. AT&T once had a monopoly on voice telephony in the US. Things change.

 

[ilg]

ilg,

	Summer	Winter
Distribution	$0.04137	$0.02460
Generation
Peak	$0.14080	$0.13998
Off Peak	$0.3118	$0.03608
Transmission	$0.00605	$0.00605

achaar,

I sincerely hope (and expect) that you are missing a leading "0" on your quoted off-peak summer generation rate. I think it should be $0.03118

The main problem with PEPCO's silly pilot is that it REQUIRES a dedicated, hardwired circuit for charging to get those rates. Since we use the UMC plugged into a NEMA 14-50, they won't let us in the car-only portion of the program. They're deathly afraid that we might unplug the car and plug in a clothes dryer or A/C unit in our detached garage. Just think of all the cheaply dried clothes we could wake up to each morning, rumpled in a heap in the dryer, while our car sits out in the weather, uncharged. Or the crisply cool (uncharged) cars we could have on those hot, muggy summer mornings. Absolute heaven. And all at PEPCO's expense. Or, maybe I could start up that midnight welding class I've always wanted to teach. The possibilities are endless...

The only other option they have on the pilot program is "whole house" tou rates, which save $0.01 in off-peak hours rate in exchange for a hike of $0.06 in the peak rate. I doubt many people will jump on that one.

-Doug

 

[achaar]

Doug,

Sorry, for the typo, you are correct. I agree, the pilot really only makes sense if you have the separate charger. I'm not sure what they get out of it though, maybe some kind of federal tax credit. I'll see how much of a difference it makes and report back.

 

[kendallpb]

I beg to differ. I certainly get your point, but Pepco is not incompetent, merely a monopolist acting like, well, a monopolist. Their defiance of things like net-metering, time-of-use plans and the like mean that current management is determined to squeeze every last dime out of their current monopoly position. Monopolies never change, but they are removed occasionally. AT&T once had a monopoly on voice telephony in the US. Things change.

Oh, they're incompetent in other ways...not just an evil monopoly. Sadly, I doubt they'll ever get broken up, though.

 

[ilg]

This post is mostly for Larry Chanin, who PM'd me yesterday.
(I tried a PM reply, but your TMC mailbox is full and won't accept more messages until you delete some old ones.)

I've sent a note to the PEPCO email asking for your friend to contact me. If she can explain how I can use the program without spending $1000's, I will be very grateful.

All, I will report back what I hear.

Doug

 

[Larry Chanin]

This post is mostly for Larry Chanin, who PM'd me yesterday.
(I tried a PM reply, but your TMC mailbox is full and won't accept more messages until you delete some old ones.)

I've sent a note to the PEPCO email asking for your friend to contact me. If she can explain how I can use the program without spending $1000's, I will be very grateful.

All, I will report back what I hear.

Doug

Hi Doug,

Sorry about my in-box. Please feel free to contact me directly at [email protected].

Regards,

Larry

 

[Ven Rala]

This post is mostly for Larry Chanin, who PM'd me yesterday.
(I tried a PM reply, but your TMC mailbox is full and won't accept more messages until you delete some old ones.)

I've sent a note to the PEPCO email asking for your friend to contact me. If she can explain how I can use the program without spending $1000's, I will be very grateful.

All, I will report back what I hear.

Doug

Let us know if you hear anything. They did not give me very useful info except for needing me to install a desperate charging station to take advantage of the lower nighttime rates

 

[ilg]

I got a call from Larry's friend. She agrees that their pilot program is not terribly well suited to many Tesla owners. She didn't tell me anything I didn't already know. However, she encouraged me to go ahead and apply for the program. Then, at the "Home Assessment," she will try to be there to help suggest ways to fit me into the program in the most advantageous way. She suggested over the phone that some sort of box around the 14-50 outlet might do it. I'm not quite sure what she has in mind, there, but I might give it a go.

The real rub is in their requirement for a hard-wired EVSE to get the attractive rates. Without that, the rates you get will be so much less compelling as to be not worth the trouble (my opinion). Because the UMC plugs into a regular 14-50 outlet (or any other style you may use), they - and, in this case, "they" are the regulators - are certain that you will be powering your entire house with cheap electrons through that one outlet. (Or conducting the aforementioned Midnight Welding Class.)

If I go ahead with the attempt, I'll let you know what happens.

 

[Cottonwood]

I got a call from Larry's friend. She agrees that their pilot program is not terribly well suited to many Tesla owners. She didn't tell me anything I didn't already know. However, she encouraged me to go ahead and apply for the program. Then, at the "Home Assessment," she will try to be there to help suggest ways to fit me into the program in the most advantageous way. She suggested over the phone that some sort of box around the 14-50 outlet might do it. I'm not quite sure what she has in mind, there, but I might give it a go.

The real rub is in their requirement for a hard-wired EVSE to get the attractive rates. Without that, the rates you get will be so much less compelling as to be not worth the trouble (my opinion). Because the UMC plugs into a regular 14-50 outlet (or any other style you may use), they - and, in this case, "they" are the regulators - are certain that you will be powering your entire house with cheap electrons through that one outlet. (Or conducting the aforementioned Midnight Welding Class.)

If I go ahead with the attempt, I'll let you know what happens.

Could be your opportunity to install an HPWC. That counts as an EVSE and is only $1200. If you have dual chargers and want to pull some larger wire, you can even crank up the Amps to beyond 40; most installs will support a 60 Amp breaker and 48 Amp charging with #6 wire. The HPWC has dip switches to set breaker rating every 10 Amps. Either way, an HPWC as a permanent installation with the UMC sitting in the car is a nice setup.

Good Luck!

 

[achaar]

I have my HPWC on a 100 Amp circuit. I usually charge at 40 but have done 80 before. I end up with about 50-55 miles of charge per hour. Still waiting to see how much of a difference the program makes in my bill.

 

[ilg]

Could be your opportunity to install an HPWC. That counts as an EVSE and is only $1200. If you have dual chargers and want to pull some larger wire, you can even crank up the Amps to beyond 40; most installs will support a 60 Amp breaker and 48 Amp charging with #6 wire. The HPWC has dip switches to set breaker rating every 10 Amps. Either way, an HPWC as a permanent installation with the UMC sitting in the car is a nice setup.

Good Luck!

That might make sense for some. But, we only have a single charger in my girlfriend's S60, so an HPWC would be overkill. And, guess how long it would take to recoup $1200 with our usage patterns and the current rate differential...

Just short of 7 years. Make it somewhere around 9-10 years, if you include installation.

Not exactly a compelling case.

Still, we'll see what they can do for us.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

That might make sense for some. But, we only have a single charger in my girlfriend's S60, so an HPWC would be overkill. And, guess how long it would take to recoup $1200 with our usage patterns and the current rate differential...

Just short of 7 years. Make it somewhere around 9-10 years, if you include installation.

Not exactly a compelling case.

Still, we'll see what they can do for us.

On the other hand, you'd have an HPWC so you'd be able to host Model S Owners Group parties.

 

[Richk]

I thought I'd bump this thread. At this point, the Pepco pilot program referred to above is done. Pepco did (at least until the end of 2015) have an R-PIV rate. It's was a whole house rate. The information I got from them was:

"If you enroll in the R-PIV rate offering (whole house, including your plug-in vehicle) and charge off-peak, you will save approximately 1 cent per kWh as compared to the SOS rates. "

Their current SOS rate is about $0.14/kWh. So you save 2-4 cents (comparing to the "bundled" rates) during off peak and pay 3-5 cents more during peak times (noon - 8 pm). Charging about 20 kWh/night (my average) means a savings of 40-80 cents/day, but paying a bunch more the rest of the day.

This is pretty useless to us.

I looked at alternative energy providers and there's very little savings (< 1 cent/kWh) and seemingly lots of risk of autonomous rate changes and as poor service as PEPCO (or worse).

Anybody have any other ideas for more cost-efficient electricity? Does anyone have PV solar and have cost/benefit experience or data?

--Rich
MS 70D, #116403, dlvy 12/12/15, Midnight Blue, pano, autopilot

 

[DFibRL8R]

Anybody have any other ideas for more cost-efficient electricity? Does anyone have PV solar and have cost/benefit experience or data?

We have solar in Northern Virginia with Dominion where the economics of PV solar are significantly worse due to:
1)cheaper electricity (standard rates are around 11.5 cents)
2)no state incentives for solar purchase

This means a longer time until we approach break even on the cost of the panels (likely around 15years). I would predict your time to break even could be substantially lower. Also, like any improvement to the home, the value is added to the residence so you should recover some of the cost if you sold the home. We sized our system to essentially break even with energy production/consumption on average over a year and basically reduce are electric bill to only the standard charge for grid connectivity (around $7/month).