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Performance cold weather range

So I definitely have range anxiety and want to make sure I have nothing to worry about before getting my car .

22 performance

My commute is 80 miles round trip and my concern is what should I expect in Chicago winters im guessing at least 100 miles with heat blasted and not conserving anything?

I debated the long range but heard the performance can get same range with wheel swap
 

tm1v2

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Oct 18, 2021
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So I definitely have range anxiety and want to make sure I have nothing to worry about before getting my car .

22 performance

My commute is 80 miles round trip and my concern is what should I expect in Chicago winters im guessing at least 100 miles with heat blasted and not conserving anything?

I debated the long range but heard the performance can get same range with wheel swap
@moto111 I can't help you with any firsthand Chicago winter weather experience, but yes the wheel+tire difference accounts for essentially all of the M3P's lower range vs M3LR of the same era. Put the same wheels and tires on each, and they will have essentially the same real-world efficiency.

In theory the M3P brakes and spoiler could affect efficiency too (pad drag and aero drag, respectively), but Tesla has surely optimized those, you won't notice any measurable real-world difference just from those.

As an example, I switched my 2021 M3P from its original 235/35R20 tires on 20x9" wheels to 245/45R18 on 18x8.5" wheels. I made the switch just for more sidewall / less fragile wheels, but my efficiency went up too as a nice side benefit. And my new tires are in the same "max performance" category as the original tires, and actually grip better both dry and wet.
 
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I have a 2020 M3LR with 19 inch wheels. Tesla says I should get 310 miles from a charge. We all know that'll never happen. I live in northwestern MA and it's just about as cold here in the winter as in Chicago. When I charge it to 100% and run it down to 20%, I usually get about 230 miles with the heat on and set to 68. Unlike Chicago, it's very hilly here and hills tend to reduce the range. you won't have that problem, in fact you shouldl have no problems with your commute assuming you have a place to charge the car either at home or at work
 
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jjrandorin

Moderator, Model 3, Tesla Energy Forums
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Nov 28, 2018
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So I definitely have range anxiety and want to make sure I have nothing to worry about before getting my car .

22 performance

My commute is 80 miles round trip and my concern is what should I expect in Chicago winters im guessing at least 100 miles with heat blasted and not conserving anything?

I debated the long range but heard the performance can get same range with wheel swap

The worst efficiency I have heard of is about 40% loss. Remember that, just like with a gas car, the slower you drive the more efficient it is, but with an EV that is somewhat magnified. The reason I mention it is, the worst efficiency you will likely see is if its really cold outside and also sunny, with no snow / ice etc on the ground to slow your driving down.

Even in those conditions, I dont see at worst more than a 45-50% hit. Usually we tell people around 30% on average. Of course you wont be charging to full or driving it to 0 either, but I dont see any situation in which your 80 mile round trip commute uses more than about 160 "miles" of range off your car.
 
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Ya I’m guna drive like a moron for a while I mean that’s the point of the p lol just so new and need to make sure. I’ll be charging at home nightly 15-40 outlet .

And glad to hear that I figured I would be fine just like the facts from owners . I’ll definitely be doing 18s with winter tires for cold and the summer tires will be the 20s
 

tm1v2

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Oct 18, 2021
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What happens if you precondition your battery during winter days? Does that negate the affects of the cold weather?
@mpgxsvcd Preconditioning the battery should let you use full regen and full power from the start of your drive.

Preconditioning the cabin will of course save some energy from initially getting the cabin to its set point.

This is assuming the car is on a charger. If it's not, then preconditioning would most likely be a net loss of energy / efficiency.

(If it's cold and you're about to drive straight down a mountain, preconditioning the battery to make regen available ASAP might be a net efficiency improvement! I haven't tested that, that's just speculation.)
 
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What is the mechanism that reduces efficiency in winter? Does the power output from the battery actually decrease or is it that you need to run auxiliary items to heat components and that uses up more energy?

I am in NC and we really didn’t get much of a winter at all last year. I never noticed any reduction in efficiency at all during our “winter” months.
 

tm1v2

Active Member
Oct 18, 2021
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USA
What is the mechanism that reduces efficiency in winter? Does the power output from the battery actually decrease or is it that you need to run auxiliary items to heat components and that uses up more energy?

I am in NC and we really didn’t get much of a winter at all last year. I never noticed any reduction in efficiency at all during our “winter” months.
@mpgxsvcd My understanding (not an expert) is batteries can neither charge nor discharge as quickly when cold.

Also most people like cabin heat in the cold. In older Tesla's with resistive heating that can be a huge use of energy, especially at high speeds with the wind whipping over a glass roof. The heat pump in our 2021 Model 3 is far more efficient (and effective!) than the resistive heater in our 2013 Model S. However we're in a mild climate here too, it gets chilly but no deep freezing. As the outside air gets very cold the efficiency of the heat pump approaches that of resistive heating - it just can't extract much heat from very cold air.
 
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The main causes of additional energy usage in cold weather are:
- Heating the cabin. Resistive or heat pump, there is energy spent to generate heat.
- colder air is denser. The faster you go the worse this will be. It's true in summer and will be worse in winter as you're pushing through that air.
- Winter tires have worse rolling resistance than low resistance EV summer tires.
- If there's snow on the ground, pushing through that snow has a significant cost.

I'm sure a cold battery is less efficient at providing energy. A cold enough battery will not accept regen (which is charging). You can alleviate this by preheating, and some of the cabin heating too. If you do it unplugged, the energy you'll lose preheating won't be less than what you'd otherwise spend. Said another way, no one believes it's more efficient to preheat before driving when you're not plugged. If you ARE plugged, preheating means you'll be mostly using wall power for preheating. You might be able to cover a longer distance with your battery before needing to recharge.
Note that your battery will heat up naturally as you drive so eventually you'll get regen etc.
 
I took delivery of my 22 M3P at the end of Feb this year in Minnesota. Only had a week of cold commutes before it warmed up but on 50 mile round trip I was seeing 20%-25% use. In the summer I am seeing 15%-18% use. I didn't get any below zero days but I don't think those will be worse then 30% use.
 
So I definitely have range anxiety and want to make sure I have nothing to worry about before getting my car .

22 performance

My commute is 80 miles round trip and my concern is what should I expect in Chicago winters im guessing at least 100 miles with heat blasted and not conserving anything?

I debated the long range but heard the performance can get same range with wheel swap
I have an 80 mi commute from Daytona Beach to Melbourne, it’s 80 mi exactly each way, with 74 miles driving 76mph. I charge to 90%, arrive back home with 15%, this is tested repeatedly, however when it gets colder, say in the mid 30’s, I can arrive home with closer to 10% remaining. Your commute is 1/2 of mine so you will be fine. What helped me was being able to trickle charge at work, I would gain back another 10% in 8-9 hours. So those temps aren’t nearly as cold as in Chicago but your car has a heat pump which should help a lot in those cold temps. I even purchased a set of OEM 19” wheels with the same tires that come on a LR model but only gained about 2%-3% of range at most. I was very surprised is wasn’t closer to a 5%-6% gain, but I think the 20” PS4S tires are very efficient. Actually winter tires have shown to have a positive impact on range due to the harder rubber compounds so you could get a small increase in range there. You’ll be fine though.
 

afadeev

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Feb 28, 2019
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So I definitely have range anxiety and want to make sure I have nothing to worry about before getting my car .

22 performance

My commute is 80 miles round trip and my concern is what should I expect in Chicago winters im guessing at least 100 miles with heat blasted and not conserving anything?

Tesla's published range #s are highly optimistic.
I could never replicate them even while doing 50mph on back roads on day 1 post delivery. Factory claimed 310 miles were more like 285 from day 1, and have been going downhill since then.

You wont be charging to 100% most of the time (more like the recommended 80%), and figure -25% for Chicago winter challenges and another -20% for highway speeds).
So, for the worst case scenario of winter driving on a highway you should expect: 285 * .8 * .75 * .8 = 136.8 miles.
If your commute is 80 miles round-trip, you will be fine.

You can adjust the input assumption to arrive at your own range estimate.

I debated the long range but heard the performance can get same range with wheel swap

That's true, though range penalty is the trade-off for higher performance and safety from better performance (Michelin PS4S) tires.
I get ~270 Wh/mi on my winter tires (Hakka R3's), and ~310 Wh/mi on the summers (PS4S's).

HTH,
a
 
You'll have 0 issues with 80 mile round trip in any weather - even on highway driving at 80-90mph the entire way (which sucks battery like crazy) you will be fine. Even pre-heating your car before you get to it, using heated seats, etc. 80 miles is nothing. I'd be hesitant to say the same about 150-200 miles in cold weather.
 
You'll have 0 issues with 80 mile round trip in any weather - even on highway driving at 80-90mph the entire way (which sucks battery like crazy) you will be fine. Even pre-heating your car before you get to it, using heated seats, etc. 80 miles is nothing. I'd be hesitant to say the same about 150-200 miles in cold weather.

I will echo this. Our friend has a Model 3 (2021) and does just about the same 80 mile round trip to work and back and has had ZERO issues with nightly charging. One of the reasons we elected to go with a Model 3 LR. It is also pretty cool to have his car "ready to go" when he climbs in and goes to work....on the way home he has it setup somehow to do the same thing.

Now granted he does not keep it parked outside while at home but this past winter when we were in the below 0^F temps ....his car started worked just fine and was toasty on the way home (car parked outside for 10 hours in the cold).
 
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