Im looking at getting the same car from the Tesla used cars option they have. How much does the heat being on effect your range? I am on the fence with getting a 2021 as they have the heat pumps vs the resistance heaters. My total daily commute would be around 130 miles... I am hopeful that no matter what Model I get that I would be getting at least 130 miles....
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Performance cold weather range
- Thread starter moto111
- Start date
It's not just the heat being on. The battery is less efficient being cold. Add to that headwinds, precipitation, and less traction if the road has snow. These things all add up.
Count on losing 40% of your range in worst-case scenarios. For a 130 mile round trip commute I would definitely want the LR or P.
Shelburne
Member
Tesla claims that if you use the seat heater instead of the cabin heater you will get added range. They don't say how much, and I haven't tried that trick, but you might want to give it a shot if you opt for the standard range model
rpiotro
Active Member
If you use the seat heater it will just suck more juice. Where the savings come in is by using the seat and steering wheel heater you can have sufficient comfort turning down the cabin temp. There is where your savings will be.
rpiotro
Active Member
In February in 2021 I got a call from the sales manager of a long time former employer. A Ford Truck dealership. He said they got in a pre-release Mustang Mach-E and asked if I would like to do an evaluation. I said sure. Went and picked it up, got my son and we drove it around for the afternoon. When we picked it up the temp was -3°F. It never got above 5°F that afternoon. The battery was fully charged but the gauge said we only had 182 miles of range remaining when I started out. As I poked around the various screens I found one that showed where our energy was going. 40% to heat the cabin to 66°. Another 5% for "thermal management." I assume that was keeping the battery warm.
I've only had my Tesla for a year now and have not encountered temperatures that cold yet but I would suspect similar consumption under those conditions. As pointed out, use the seat heater and turn down the cabin temp. That will help a lot. You're probably dressed for the colder temps anyway.
As an aside, that Mach-E was pretty nice! An impressive first effort for Ford. Though I could have bought that one at a discount but I took a pass. It rode like a truck, because it is a truck (SUV) and that lame ass Macpherson strut front suspension was noisy as heck on bumpy roads. You'd think they would have done something better than an econobox from suspension in a $55,000 vehicle.
I've only had my Tesla for a year now and have not encountered temperatures that cold yet but I would suspect similar consumption under those conditions. As pointed out, use the seat heater and turn down the cabin temp. That will help a lot. You're probably dressed for the colder temps anyway.
As an aside, that Mach-E was pretty nice! An impressive first effort for Ford. Though I could have bought that one at a discount but I took a pass. It rode like a truck, because it is a truck (SUV) and that lame ass Macpherson strut front suspension was noisy as heck on bumpy roads. You'd think they would have done something better than an econobox from suspension in a $55,000 vehicle.
@rpiotro I felt similar about the Mach-E! We tested a Premium AWD when we were car shopping last fall. Pretty nice in several ways, very quiet on the highway, great Bang & Olufsen sound system, good size for a family car...but the suspension was terrible!
Turns Ford does make a better version...the GT Performance Edition with Magneride suspension. I got to drive one later and the suspension was pretty great. Both ride quality and handling were much better than the regular suspension. But they only put the Magneride on that top $$$ Performance Edition. All other trims are stuck with the crappy regular suspension.
(Later I learned about all the thermal issues with the GT versions. Hard pass unfortunately. There was a lot to like about the GT Performance Edition but not with those thermal issues.)
rpiotro
Active Member
Sandy Munro did several videos on the Mach-E. He too liked a lot of things about it until he removed the frunk tub baring the thermal management system. I thought he was going to gag. Compared to Tesla's simple and elegant system this was a plumbers nightmare with all of the rubber hoses, fittings, tees, brackets etc and a substantial increase in weight due to the amount of coolant used. And he said "and this is the second best system out there."@rpiotro I felt similar about the Mach-E! We tested a Premium AWD when we were car shopping last fall. Pretty nice in several ways, very quiet on the highway, great Bang & Olufsen sound system, good size for a family car...but the suspension was terrible!
Turns Ford does make a better version...the GT Performance Edition with Magneride suspension. I got to drive one later and the suspension was pretty great. Both ride quality and handling were much better than the regular suspension. But they only put the Magneride on that top $$$ Performance Edition. All other trims are stuck with the crappy regular suspension.
@rpiotro Ahh sounds nasty. For me it was watching Out of Spec Kyle's review of the Mach-E GT PE. He was in California, drove it north on the highway out of San Francisco, then cut over to twisty roads by the coast. The act of driving the GT PE on the highway - looked like normal driving, no super high speed pulls or anything - made the car too hot to enter its "Unbridled Extend" mode...which exists precisely delay thermal throttle onset! Kyle literally had to pull over and let the car sit for a while, before it would go into Unbridled Extend.
I do regular drives which are pretty much exactly what Kyle did there - drive on the highway for a while, then get off for twisty rural roads. So I'm quite certain I would run into exactly the same issue trying to get into Unbridled Extend for the twisties. To be fair M3P Track Mode always requires Park to enter. That is annoying for sure, but at least it's always available. Our M3P has never, ever denied me from entering Track Mode (from Park).
The Mach-E is also slow at DCFC by modern EV standards. Why is unclear but certainly fits a pattern of weak thermals.
Then there's the 5 second max acceleration limit. Honestly that wouldn't be much of an issue for me, but again, sounds like bad thermals, otherwise why have the limit? It also feels like false advertising - Ford should list separate "sustained" and "boost" power levels, which some manufacturers actually do for turbo ICE cars that have a time-limited overboost option.
And now there's the thermal-related recall. Which wasn't announced when we were shopping, but it's yet one more sign of overall bad thermals in the car. Doesn't inspire any confidence in the drivetrain engineering.
Edit: I really did like many aspects of the Mach-E GT PE, such as the Magneride suspension, seats, B&O sound system, quietness, and liftgate. But I don't trust the drivetrain or software, at all, which are pretty critical in an EV!
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4 winters with a model 3 and 8 winters with a Tesla in Alaska my experience:
The heat is the #1 contribution to range loss in the winter. I keep it set to 60-62F all winter and on clear roads only see a ~15-20% increase in Wh/mi (or range loss) even down to single digits F. If my wife sets the heat to 70-72 it is more like a 30-40% hit even in the teens F. A clear sunny day in the teens F on pavement I can get pretty close to rated range. That said below 0F and for sure in the -20’sF it’s a 30-40% hit. I have a 2018 so no heat pump, but at glad since I can go 3-4 months with no temps above freezing.
Fresh snow, we don’t use salt (banned in AK) so just drive on snow/ice 6-7 months a year. Fresh loose snow is a 30-50% increase in consumption.
Cold in it self. Does nothing to reduce range. A cold soaked battery has less capacity (Tesla snowflake) but when I’m the battery warms up (from driving) toy get it back. It is common for me to leave work with a “snowflake” with x% and get home 9 miles later with the same x% because the battery warmed and I got back essentially what I used.
Regen. Regen does almost nothing to add range. I’ve done some tests I live ~1000’ above work going to work I can get lower Wh/mi with regen on low then regular. Regen is a huge liability on slick roads. Late September/early October when I switch to my winter tires I switch regen to low and acceleration to chill and leave it that way until mid to late May when I switch back.
Tires. Winter Tires do nothing to increase Wh/mi. I run the OEM MXM4’s in the summer and aggressive/studded Hakka 9’s in the winter. All other things considered equal no difference in Wh/mi when I switch back and forth.
In the winter (October to May I average ~310 Wh/mi or about a 25% range reduction depending on how you look at it. But under the worst winter conditions (cold, fresh snow, strong headwind) A few times a winter I see a more like 60-70% Range reduction.
A few other things. In the winter i set my charge to 80%, 90% if there is snow predicted, in the summer I set to 60 or 70%. Most of my winter driving is in town at <55 mph. I regularly drive 80 miles round trip to my cabin (at more like 50-60mph) and never have feared making it. With the EV since they are very efficient external factors make a much larger difference then ICEs.
The heat is the #1 contribution to range loss in the winter. I keep it set to 60-62F all winter and on clear roads only see a ~15-20% increase in Wh/mi (or range loss) even down to single digits F. If my wife sets the heat to 70-72 it is more like a 30-40% hit even in the teens F. A clear sunny day in the teens F on pavement I can get pretty close to rated range. That said below 0F and for sure in the -20’sF it’s a 30-40% hit. I have a 2018 so no heat pump, but at glad since I can go 3-4 months with no temps above freezing.
Fresh snow, we don’t use salt (banned in AK) so just drive on snow/ice 6-7 months a year. Fresh loose snow is a 30-50% increase in consumption.
Cold in it self. Does nothing to reduce range. A cold soaked battery has less capacity (Tesla snowflake) but when I’m the battery warms up (from driving) toy get it back. It is common for me to leave work with a “snowflake” with x% and get home 9 miles later with the same x% because the battery warmed and I got back essentially what I used.
Regen. Regen does almost nothing to add range. I’ve done some tests I live ~1000’ above work going to work I can get lower Wh/mi with regen on low then regular. Regen is a huge liability on slick roads. Late September/early October when I switch to my winter tires I switch regen to low and acceleration to chill and leave it that way until mid to late May when I switch back.
Tires. Winter Tires do nothing to increase Wh/mi. I run the OEM MXM4’s in the summer and aggressive/studded Hakka 9’s in the winter. All other things considered equal no difference in Wh/mi when I switch back and forth.
In the winter (October to May I average ~310 Wh/mi or about a 25% range reduction depending on how you look at it. But under the worst winter conditions (cold, fresh snow, strong headwind) A few times a winter I see a more like 60-70% Range reduction.
A few other things. In the winter i set my charge to 80%, 90% if there is snow predicted, in the summer I set to 60 or 70%. Most of my winter driving is in town at <55 mph. I regularly drive 80 miles round trip to my cabin (at more like 50-60mph) and never have feared making it. With the EV since they are very efficient external factors make a much larger difference then ICEs.
80 miles round trip is no problem, I’m doing 140 round trips charged to 80 percent.
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