TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker or making a Paypal contribution here: paypal.me/SupportTMC

"Performance" Hybrid to non-P Model S experience

Discussion in 'Model S: Driving Dynamics' started by caps04, Jan 3, 2015.

  1. caps04

    caps04 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2014
    Messages:
    237
    Location:
    NJ USA
    I have an 85D ordered to be delivered in late February ($99k). Took a couple of test drives in an S60 last summer but unlike everyone else, I never got that great Tesla moment. Still, put down my deposit in May/June as I liked the idea of going all-electric. Had to push the delivery dates a few times hoping for ACC and luckily the D got announced so switched to it.

    I currently own an RX400h and there were a few things that were not new to me:

    1) The feeling of quiet electric only driving. The RX feels the same around parking lots and suburban driving when cruising so it wasn't completely new.
    2) RX has a CVT so used to not feeling gear shifts.
    3) Acceleration. RX400h goes 0 to 60 in 6.5 seconds and S60 is 5.x. There is a difference but I wasn't blown away.
    4) RX rear wheels are connected to electric motors only so no transmission hump in the back seat and floor storage in the front.
    5) The 9 year old RX seemed to have better quality interiors like seats, materials, visors, etc. Stilled preferred the look of Tesla but the point is that I wasn't blown away or anything.

    Anyway, having said all that, are there any owners of non-P Model S who came from a Lexus or other fast hybrids and are still blown away by the car? Blown away as in feeling that Model S is much much better than their old/other Hybrid?

    Just looking for some owner experience and feedback and no intentions of starting a flame war. I intend to keep the RX at least until Superchargers cover some skiing spots/Poconos in PA.
     
  2. AmpedRealtor

    AmpedRealtor Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2013
    Messages:
    4,690
    Location:
    Buckeye, AZ
    #2 AmpedRealtor, Jan 3, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2015
    I'm not sure I understand why you are asking this question. You were not "blown away" by the Tesla compared to your Lexus RX400h SUV. Why would seeking out other Lexus owners who were blown away matter? If you weren't blown away by a Tesla, I don't understand why you are ordering one.
     
  3. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2013
    Messages:
    10,326
    Location:
    San Mateo, CA
    I'm curious as to why you didn't take a test drive in an 85 before placing your order. Seems you have only driven a 60. The base 85 is much quicker and your 85D will be even quicker plus it will have far more carrying capacity than your Lexus.

    I am glad to hear that you are motivated to go 100% EV and dispense with gasoline.
     
  4. caps04

    caps04 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2014
    Messages:
    237
    Location:
    NJ USA
    Like I mentioned in my post, I ordered one because I want to go all-electric. 9 years ago, the RX400h was the best choice for someone looking to give hybrids a chance but something bigger, faster and more luxurious than a Prius. I can still hyper-mile my SUV and get great MPG around town.

    Anyway, since my car arrives in less than 2 months I just wanted to get a sense on what to expect from owners just like me. It would be interesting to know what their experience was.

    - - - Updated - - -

    The first time I took the test drive, I didn't even know there was/is any performance difference between the two. I just went along with whatever car was immediately available for a drive. I was told 60 just had lower range so the test drive wouldn't matter. Besides, I was not even sure which model I would order at that time.

    The second time, it was in a different place where they had the MC red but only in 60 and I wanted to take it out from the mall garage and see the car in direct light (went on to order that color).

    One thing I know I will like is the ability to drive all electric miles instead of constantly trying to hyper-mile the RX :)
     
  5. ItsNotAboutTheMoney

    ItsNotAboutTheMoney Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2012
    Messages:
    4,496
    Location:
    Maine
    Maybe there's more to the Tesla experience than can be appreciated in a test drive. Maybe there's something they missed that they'd notice with more seat time.
     
  6. Jason S

    Jason S Model S Sig Perf (P85)

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2012
    Messages:
    1,350
    Location:
    Rocklin, CA
    Second hand info and all, but here's the feedback. Lexus build quality, especially around mid-2000s, is world class. Tesla is getting there, but still has some work to do. People going from an RX400 to a Model S aren't going to see a huge improvement in non-drivetrain items to be honest, might be sidegrade.

    However, the driving experience is really nice. The Model S seems like a smaller car for handling, bigger car for hauling around things. Don't discount the frunk, it is nice to have that space in addition to the rear space you already have with the SUV. The center gap is nice as well, imho, although some prefer having a place to put more things out of sight but within reach. Or a more convenient cupholder. :tongue:

    The speed off the line is very quick. Helps with those "uh oh" moments when the cross traffic is going faster than you'd originally thought. I think you'll find yourself leaving the RX in the garage more often than you may think now once you have the S.
     
  7. muleferg

    muleferg Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2013
    Messages:
    736
    Location:
    North Wilkesboro, NC
    I came from a RH 400. No test drive with a Tesla. Never got the neck jerked like my 2014 S85. The RH was my wife's car and was replaced by a Ford Flex that we both like better.
     
  8. MSEV

    MSEV Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2014
    Messages:
    359
    Location:
    Nebraska
    I drive a Lexus HS250h and was blown away and neck jerked by the 85 we drove. I wanted to go from hybrid to all electric. I am getting an 85D about the same time you will. I think you will grow to enjoy the Model S more than the Lexus, and I hope I do, too. Lexus is a very nice car.
     
  9. svp6

    svp6 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2014
    Messages:
    297
    Location:
    MN
    I test-drove the S60 (quite sedated), S85 (OK, but not superfast) and the P85+ (very fast - better than my BMW 650). The P85D which I got yesterday is just a beast.

    If you want comfort only and OK acceleration go S85 or S85D.

    You should also ask other people who have the S60 on range - I know Islandbay is regretting his decision not to go 85 kW battery way...
     
  10. AmpedRealtor

    AmpedRealtor Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2013
    Messages:
    4,690
    Location:
    Buckeye, AZ
    It depends on what car you ar coming from. The S85 has plenty fast acceleration for most, the S85D is even better. Not everyone needs or wants supercar performance or the price tag that goes with it.
     
  11. caps04

    caps04 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2014
    Messages:
    237
    Location:
    NJ USA
    Oh I am getting an 85D. Once I read about real world mileage and my needs, 60 was out of the question. Btw, congratulations on the P85D.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Turns out the RX has 38.x cu ft of cargo space and the non-D has combined 31.x cu ft so no, unfortunately I won't have far more cargo capacity. I will actually lose some but not enough to bother me :)
     
  12. LetsGoFast

    LetsGoFast Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2014
    Messages:
    1,342
    Location:
    Virginia
    My wife drives a RX450h and I just bought a P85D. Obviously my car has superior performance, but I thought the difference between even the base Model S and the RX was noticeable. I would say that the overall comfort and fit/finish of the Lexus is superior to the Tesla, but the giant touch screen and various UI features like Slacker make it closer than I would have guessed. So far my wife, who ordinarily doesn't care one bit about performance, prefers that we take the Tesla to the Lexus for errands done together and opined that it was more comfortable on our last road trip than her car.
     
  13. invisik

    invisik Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2014
    Messages:
    620
    Location:
    Minneapolis
    I think LetsGoFast sums it up quite well. Tesla fit and finish is a bit less then other luxury brands, but is not awful by any yardstick and surpasses others with its technology and driving experience. My wife also likes it better especially with ore-heating the cabin and the overall quietness and smoothness of the Tesla. We don't mind telling random people on the street about the car either.. Heh.
     
  14. model_s

    model_s Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2014
    Messages:
    5
    Location:
    United States
    I have a 2007 RX400H. I bought it ages years ago and at that time it was the absolute perfect car for me.
    I wanted something more modern as the Lexus still has a tape deck in it!
    Also wanted something faster so was looking at sports cars like corvette stingray.
    the fact that I need to haul things, like technology, and want to go fast led me directly to Tesla.
    The p85d is a huge jump and the car is planted to the ground. I can carry most things but when I need to carry lots or go really far I still have the Lexus.
    I would have been happy with an s85 but the p85d is like an all in one car for me that makes highly versatile.
     
  15. mackgoo

    mackgoo Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2014
    Messages:
    134
    Location:
    SoCal
    I would like to add. Yes, fit finish is very high end "economy", low end luxury. What we pay for today with a Tesla is the tech. and it's more than a big touch screen, although that's nice. When I went down this road I looked at the Fiat, 32000, 86 miles no SC network. 86 times three 258, 32000 x 96, oh gee sound familiar? The Tesla nicer fit finish.
    Same comparison with the Kia. Plugin hybrids the same I was interested in getting rid of the engine.
    Now you have the BMW and Mercedes, nice fit and finish but milage pitiful and they're getting closer to the Tesla price point.
    For me with the Tesla you get the most bang for your buck, although the entry point is pretty high.
    So sorry as I realize this is really looking for a specific compare vs why but it is what is is.
     
  16. Zythryn

    Zythryn MS 70D, MX 90D

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2009
    Messages:
    1,660
    Location:
    Minnesota
    I've been test driving all the competitive cars pretty much any chance I get and used to drive a Lexus IS250.
    The biggest gap I find is in the smoothness of the acceleration and the responsiveness.

    The instantaneous response from the electric motor is phenomenal.
    I haven't driven an RX yet, I'll have to add it to my list to check out.

    I'm in full agreement with the others, Tesla is about tech first, luxury is not as good as some others.
    They have come quite a ways in the last couple of years and I expect that to continue.
     
  17. skilly

    skilly Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2014
    Messages:
    438
    Location:
    Livermore CA
    Ive had both. This is an interesting thread - spending close to 100K for a car you aren't impressed with seems odd to me...electric or otherwise. And, comparing an RX to to Model S is an odd one too. I would understand this more if you were contemplating the Model X. All that said, here is what my thoughts are:

    - My Lexus fit/finish is top line. It was comparable in quality to anything from any high end car manufacturer.
    - Lexus service can sometimes be spotty - they seem to sometimes switch between a high end experience and run of the mill; Tesla service from what I have seen understands the high end market and the demands that its customers place upon them.
    - The Lexus driver experience is decent; however, the car seems to lack something. I still get the feeling that I am driving a highly optioned Toyota - it doesn't inspire me to just get in and drive.
    - the Model S is a tech marvel. You could be highly accustomed to tech riddled cars and still find yourself lost in many of the functions that Model S offers well into the ownership of the car. And they aren't bling but rather useful (GPS based charging for example)
    - Performance between Model S and any other Hybrid isn't really fair to the other car. Model S doesn't really compromise in this area and if you're feeling like a "pants on fire" experience, you should consider the P85D (0-60 in 6.5sec isn't really performance unless you are comparing it to other hybrids)
    - The Tesla fit and finish with the cars coming out of the factory as of late, are easily comparable to a BMW or MB quality - where in reading the feedback on this forum I don't think that was the case for early adopters. No rattles; of course, some owners experiencing problems, but no different than other quality auto manufacturers.
    - The continuous improvements on the car that are "free" with the ownership of the car via version upgrades seem to be quite unique in the market - quality control and new functionality delivered in your driveway without a fee - none (including Lexus) do that.
    - The most recent offering of the S (P85D) is being compared to the MB S550 and Porsche Panamara Turbo in terms of its overall offering (put ICE aside). That alone speaks to the driver experience and quality of the product...a car company that has producing Model S for all of 2 years being compared to products that have been on the market for 50+ years

    If you are going to be going electric, and you want something that is built with care and has real world functionality, Tesla is really the only choice available. All others are more akin to golf karts (no offense to those that have the other electric vehicles) than anything else.
     
  18. jcaspar

    jcaspar Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2013
    Messages:
    793
    Location:
    Sacramento
    Coming from a minivan like the RX400h, I think you will be shocked at how much better the Model S is in all aspects of performance. You will be going from Toyota Camry like type acceleration to that of a BMW 550. But for some people, a minivan is much more practical than a performance sedan. You will have to sort that out for yourself.
     
  19. purplewalt

    purplewalt Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2013
    Messages:
    1,412
    Location:
    Dallas, Texas
    The one unfortunate truth is NO ONE has yet taken delivery on a 85D.
    So a valid comparison is currently impossible.
    Similar, yes.
    Apples to Apples, no.

    Several Forum contributors have taken delivery of their P85D, but the 85D has yet to be owned / tested / driven /even seen (by the public) so the jury is still out.
    It is being marketed as being faster than the S85, so that might be enough for you (it certainly is for me).
    Likewise, the range of the 85D will probably be getting a lot of scrutiny.

    I understand that there are some forthcoming software updates for the P85D which will possibly alter its driving operation and improve its range.
    Possibly a similar update will be implemented before the S85D actually is released and delivered.
     
  20. caps04

    caps04 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2014
    Messages:
    237
    Location:
    NJ USA
    I know Model S has better performance but just to clarify, this "minivan" can do 0-60 in 6.5 seconds. Same linear acceleration without gear shifts. Has more cargo space than Tesla and was a full second faster than the base model BMW 3 series of the same generation 05/06 :tongue:
     

Share This Page