Performance increase for 100D. 0-100 in 3,3 sek

[Bebop]

That's actually a terrible comparison. The iPhone gets refreshed 1 time per year, at an expected month, and the upgrades are annouced a week before you can buy it. Nothing like what Tesla does.

The point is that technology changes. Want to wait for the best Tesla will offer? Well at that rate you'll never own your car. You'll just be sitting on the sideline waiting.

 

[HankLloydRight]

Having said that some of the P85D's had fantastic performance suspension/steering settings which no longer exist. Ie. dual rear brakes,

What dual rear brakes?

Are you thinking of the rear parking calipers on every Model S?

 

[Destiny1701]

What dual rear brakes?

Are you thinking of the rear parking calipers on every Model S?

Oh Right. They used to be 2 calipers on the rear. 1 was obviously parking.

 

[R.S]

Those are gasoline cars which actually make a difference.

The increase was because of new hardware which was automatic to begin with. And essentially for 20K less you get less range. Remember that ludicrous mode was a 10k option for like .5 second increase in acceleration. So it's not that crazy to think.

Want more range? Get the 100D, don't need that extra range? Save some money and get the 75D.

Remember that these cars, even the base 75 RWD are essentially P models. The base 75 has about the same HP and 0-60 as a P85.

Tesla doesn't want you to save some money, they aren't some NGO welfare organization. They want you to spend as much money as possible on their cars.

So making the 75D as quick as the 100D actually leads to people not opting for the 100D, even if they could afford it. And since there is still a massive price gap, making the 100D quicker is only logical. Remember, it was only a very short amount of time, in which the small range battery version is now almost as quick as the non performance, long range battery version.

 

[wwu123]

Of course they would! My 90D had a 4.2sec advantage over the 75D 5.2. That was abolished last month and proves that Tesla doesn't truly care how it affects previous owners. We paid about 15k more than a 75D today and while we have a slight range advantage, the power is now equal. We have AP1.0 and Pre facelift as we missed the facelift by 2 weeks (talk about upset!) Overall the 75D is a solid deal compared to what we paid in 2016. Still very happy but if the 100D goes to 3.3, will strongly consider an upgrade.

Tesla is all about ensuring their sales goals are realized quarter to quarter. If that means they would offer more OTA features (which are free) and the consumer derives more value to drive sales... they will.

Wait a second, you are complaining about a practice that diminishes existing owners at the expense of new buyers, but without even a pause or paragraph break you would consider buying a new 100D if they screw existing 100D owners and diminishes existing P100D owners to quite a degree as well by closing the gap.

I'm an existing owner as well whose car was not as good as ones just two weeks after delivery, I've watched both sides of this debate play out in the forums. At some point folks have to back up their words with their deeds, right?

 

[Destiny1701]

Wait a second, you are complaining about a practice that diminishes existing owners at the expense of new buyers, but without even a pause or paragraph break you would consider buying a new 100D if they screw existing 100D owners and diminishes existing P100D owners to quite a degree as well by closing the gap.

I'm an existing owner as well whose car was not as good as ones just two weeks after delivery, I've watched both sides of this debate play out in the forums. At some point folks have to back up their words with their deeds, right?

I wasn't complaining buddy...just stating a fact of being part of the Tesla family. Changes occur on the fly and I was part of a very significant exterior refresh period which was missed by weeks. I know only too well how that feels. As
mentioned above, I enjoy my 90D very much

I dont believe a 3.3s time vs a 2.3s time for the P100D owners would impact their feelings very much. 2.3 is considered one of if not the fastest production vehicle on the planet on par with a select few top supercars. There is always a prestige and value for owning such a machine.

Regardless of whether they would screw existing owners or not (I sincerely hope they don't as I'm one of those existing owners) and whether they offer an ota retroactively or not, I would consider upgrading yes as my own lease buyout is under my trade in value (positive equity) and we receive a hefty 14k rebate and a 1.49% rate vs the 2.9 I'm currently at. Nothing to do with how I perceive Teslas upgrade practices. At simply a range difference and AP2, it was not worth it for me. For a performance jump at the same time...I would heavily consider it but will likely wait until any interior change announcement closer to quarter end just to be satisfied.

 

[chillaban]

What dual rear brakes?

Are you thinking of the rear parking calipers on every Model S?

That is what he means... the second caliper actually is no longer there on non-perf models. My 100D only has one rear caliper and it’s seemingly smaller too than my previous 75D’s rear caliper — not sure if it had any impact on performance though.

 

[HankLloydRight]

That is what he means... the second caliper actually is no longer there on non-perf models. My 100D only has one rear caliper and it’s seemingly smaller too than my previous 75D’s rear caliper — not sure if it had any impact on performance though.

Huh.. that's good to know. I didn't realize they stopped using a second dedicated parking brake caliper. Thanks.

 

[Destiny1701]

That is what he means... the second caliper actually is no longer there on non-perf models. My 100D only has one rear caliper and it’s seemingly smaller too than my previous 75D’s rear caliper — not sure if it had any impact on performance though.

I would hope not! I hope they are also still Brembo brake calipers as on all pre-facelift models.

 

[Bebop]

They can probably make the 75D faster but they will not cannibalize the 100D sales for it as the latter has a higher profit margin. One cannot expect the only difference for 20k to be range.

I don't think it would cannibalize at all. It's a range decision at that point. Some people just literally need at least the 100 battery. So even if they increased the 75D performance further, the people who were going to buy the 100D are still going to buy it because they need/want the extra range.

 

[PhaseWhite]

...
My prediction is that we early next week will get announcement from Tesla that all cars are uncorked with new performance. So the ppl with 100D on the road will get OTA updates with the new performance in the same way that 75D 2016 owners also will get the update. Everyone will be happy!

I'm starting to think that the original change where they listed improved 100D 0-60 at 4.1 was actually just a marketing restatement with no underlying changes. Now we are seeing the same relaxing of the current limits that the 75D saw previously being applied to the 100D.

I did some rough back of the napkin math and it would seem that applying the same new current limits that the 75D (350V pack) got to the 100D (400V pack) should give the 100D about the same power output P85D performance (which does 3.1 0-60)

1. Assume latest 75D changes bring power output to 90D/100D parity (375KW)
So 375000W/350V = 1071A...
2. Applying that same current draw at 400V gives: 400V * 1071A = 428KW

*Estimated power level source: Refresh 90D Horse Power Specs (Powertools)

Since we've seen these changes applied to the older CPO and inventory 100Ds we can also conclude that no hardware is required for these changes (though new hardware may give Tesla higher certainly on impacts to warranty claims). We've also seen current limits fluctuate recently with the P90D thread here complaining about drop in current, which has just recently been restored via OTA Update. So a couple datapoints confirm Tesla's ability to adjust current limits via OTA.

As a 2017 (refresh) 90D owner (Inventory purchased in June 2017), I'm hoping for an invite to the party, as we have seen now that the motors in my car and battery pack can probably support P85D performance 0-60 in 3.1 seconds... Tesla should offer this as a paid upgrade based on estimated warranty claims cost increases!

Any other 90D owners out there, thoughts?

 

[Bebop]

Tesla doesn't want you to save some money, they aren't some NGO welfare organization. They want you to spend as much money as possible on their cars.

So making the 75D as quick as the 100D actually leads to people not opting for the 100D, even if they could afford it. And since there is still a massive price gap, making the 100D quicker is only logical. Remember, it was only a very short amount of time, in which the small range battery version is now almost as quick as the non performance, long range battery version.

t's a range decision at that point. Some people just literally need at least the 100 battery. So even if they increased the 75D performance further, the people who were going to buy the 100D are still going to buy it because they need/want the extra range.

 

[Destiny1701]

I don't think it would cannibalize at all. It's a range decision at that point. Some people just literally need at least the 100 battery. So even if they increased the 75D performance further, the people who were going to buy the 100D are still going to buy it because they need/want the extra range.

Not for 20k most won't. There maybe a few but Tesla wants to ensure they max sales out with higher margin cars...not leave it for a select few. Also with the model 3LR at a 9k premium for 220 to 310 miles range and .5sec faster, its already causing issues lol. The 20k variance for 75D to 100D range is frankly too expensive now given the new M3 pricing on range these days.

In the end I just don't see any further need to increase the 75D in performance to eat into their own 100D sales. People pay for extra performance in the automotive world...nothing new! 4.3s down from 5.2 is an amazing feat as it is for the 75D. Well done Tesla!

 

[Destiny1701]

I'm starting to think that the original change where they listed improved 100D 0-60 at 4.1 was actually just a marketing restatement with no underlying changes. Now we are seeing the same relaxing of the current limits that the 75D saw previously being applied to the 100D.

I did some rough back of the napkin math and it would seem that applying the same new current limits that the 75D (350V pack) got to the 100D (400V pack) should give the 100D about the same power output P85D performance (which does 3.1 0-60)

1. Assume latest 75D changes bring power output to 90D/100D parity (375KW)
So 375000W/350V = 1071A...
2. Applying that same current draw at 400V gives: 400V * 1071A = 428KW

*Estimated power level source: Refresh 90D Horse Power Specs (Powertools)

Since we've seen these changes applied to the older CPO and inventory 100Ds we can also conclude that no hardware is required for these changes (though new hardware may give Tesla higher certainly on impacts to warranty claims). We've also seen current limits fluctuate recently with the P90D thread here complaining about drop in current, which has just recently been restored via OTA Update. So a couple datapoints confirm Tesla's ability to adjust current limits via OTA.

As a 2017 (refresh) 90D owner (Inventory purchased in June 2017), I'm hoping for an invite to the party, as we have seen now that the motors in my car and battery pack can probably support P85D performance 0-60 in 3.1 seconds... Tesla should offer this as a paid upgrade based on estimated warranty claims cost increases!

Any other 90D owners out there, thoughts?

I pray with you my friend. Same situation.

 

[boonedocks]

I don't think it would cannibalize at all. It's a range decision at that point. Some people just literally need at least the 100 battery. So even if they increased the 75D performance further, the people who were going to buy the 100D are still going to buy it because they need/want the extra range.

My decision for purchasing had -0- to do with my 0-60 performance. In fact 0-60 means so little to me in real world driving I would give up another second 0-60 for added range.

The infatuation with 0-60 just amazes me. I would have gladly purchased a P100D if it was even remotely important to me. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[agtdDelirium]

As a 2017 (refresh) 90D owner (Inventory purchased in June 2017), I'm hoping for an invite to the party, as we have seen now that the motors in my car and battery pack can probably support P85D performance 0-60 in 3.1 seconds... Tesla should offer this as a paid upgrade based on estimated warranty claims cost increases!

Any other 90D owners out there, thoughts?

As a 90D refresh owner, I certainly agree, except that this should not be a paid upgrade. Part of the Tesla ownership (and price paid) is knowing that the car can be software upgraded at any time, and the vehicle you originally purchased will not be the same vehicle years down the road. There have been performance upgrades given previously by OTA updates. If this performance improvement is truly software only, it should be fleet wide.

Plus, to some extent this might appease those who feel slighted by the promised claims of EAP/FSD that have failed to materialize...yet. Getting a performance class car would make me giggle again in pride of ownership.

 

[Snowstorm]

If it is available in inventory cars, does that mean that is a software upgrade rather than a hardware that is only available in new builds?

 

[chillaban]

If it is available in inventory cars, does that mean that is a software upgrade rather than a hardware that is only available in new builds?

Or worse, only given to inventory cars (e.g. it's a hidden software unlock)

 

[R.S]

t's a range decision at that point. Some people just literally need at least the 100 battery. So even if they increased the 75D performance further, the people who were going to buy the 100D are still going to buy it because they need/want the extra range.

And if they also increase performance, more performance oriented people will also rather buy the 100D.

Tesla wants more 100D buyers not less!

 

[timvracer]

Well, 45k is nothing for some, and very material for others.
I *really* wanted the P100D, but could not justify another 45k to get it. I am bummed that there is such disparity in the 0-60, it does matter to some of us!! I admit.. I am infatuated.

The key is to match up the abundant available $$ with those of us who care about that speed!! Feel free to donate to the cause!

My decision for purchasing had -0- to do with my 0-60 performance. In fact 0-60 means so little to me in real world driving I would give up another second 0-60 for added range.

The infatuation with 0-60 just amazes me. I would have gladly purchased a P100D if it was even remotely important to me. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯