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Performance Model 3 is too cheap - about to drop some truth bombs.

MXWing

Well-Known Member
Oct 13, 2016
7,318
18,032
USA
Anyone who wants to whine about PM3 price is about to get wrecked so fair warning in advance.

Those good at analysis or at least interpreting the work of others should have reached the conclusion:

The Model 3 LR destroys the Model S in almost every area. The S only beats the 3 in very specific use case scenarios such as wanting to seat 5 adults and two children. Or if you must have the extra cargo capacity. The S cannot match the 3 in areas like being easier to park and the benefits of just having a smaller car.

The Model 3 beats the S so soundly that Tesla has to antisell the 3, and unreport range and performance.

The P Model 3 is $3.5K more, mid-single digit price premium over the BASIC MODEL S. It's

-Leaner
-More advanced technology
-Faster
-Decked out interior
-Carbon fiber spoiler (there's your badge to show off)
-Much more range.
-I know I'm missing much but no one really needs convincing here.

I think we know who wins the contest of Performance Model 3 vs Base Model S.

Rebuttals / Counter rebuttals

Elon said cheaper options on the 3 than the S. -Who cares what Elon said. Tesla needs to make some money. They can take mine if they would hurry up and let me order. Maybe you shouldn't of fired the website contractors so hastily!

The Tesla PM3 doesn't have bla bla bla on the BMW M3. - Umm no BMW is a Tesla. This can't be explained to you, you either get it or you don't. If you think the Tesla is not a BMW, there's no point convincing you. Go buy the BMW M3 and be done here.

Those not "impressed" can go impress themselves with something else. :D

Lastly, the PM3 is a disaster creator for the Model S. Look for real world PM3 specs to be better as advertised and look for the S to be made much beefier. It has to be. Otherwise, just shut the S line down except for P100D.
 
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Knightshade

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2017
11,644
15,713
NC
Your post doesn't make a lot of sense.

First it appear to be comparing the P3 to the S75...but then getting into rebuttals you only discuss BMW.

Second- if what you suggest were correct (it's not) then BMW itself wouldn't bother selling 5 or higher series cars- everyone would just buy an M3.

That doesn't happen of course- because some people prefer a larger touring car to a smaller performance car. A pretty healthy number of them in fact.

See also all the ES, non-F GS, and LS sedans Lexus sells instead of better-performing IS350s (or the IS-F when they made it)

Or basically any other car company that likewise sells a small performance car while still somehow selling plenty of larger, slower, cars- often costing as much or more than the small performance one.


Personally I don't find the P3 compelling because it's a $20,000+ price jump from the non-P AWD car and as far as we can tell gives you literally nothing for that money besides a 1 second 0-60 improvement to a car that's already respectable at 4.5, and a shorter wait for white seats I don't want... (compare the value proposition of that to getting a 0.6 second improvement for only 5k adding AWD to the RWD Model 3).
 

xav-

Active Member
May 26, 2016
1,187
821
Orange County CA
The Model S is a different and larger car. A car that many would prefer. And while I prefer the Model 3 there are others that prefer the S. They are different cars selling to different segments.
Doesn’t matter that the car is different and larger. Some people would prefer a 5 series over a 3 series but not many would buy a 528i at the price of an M3. I get there are some people like we see on this forum who are well off and just would rather buy a $150k P100D over a model 3.. but that is not going to be enough to keep the model S in the current state.
 

ucmndd

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2016
6,413
11,962
California
Doesn’t matter that the car is different and larger.
Of course it does. I have no interest in a Performance Model 3 for the same price as my 75D. I'm certainly not alone.

. Some people would prefer a 5 series over a 3 series but not many would buy a 528i at the price of an M3

This is a silly comparison. In terms of style, market position, and performance, the Model S is closer to a 6 series gran coupe. The availability of the M3 does nothing to tamp down demand for the $93k 650i, which has similar performance to the 75D.
 
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McRat

Well-Known Member
Jan 20, 2016
5,771
5,414
LA
The Model S is a different and larger car. A car that many would prefer. And while I prefer the Model 3 there are others that prefer the S. They are different cars selling to different segments.

The most expensive Porsche, Chevrolet, Ford, etc, are also the smallest models.
 

dethman

Member
Apr 19, 2018
890
896
socal
dumb troll post.

i personally much preferred the S to the 3. looks much better, larger, more comfortable inside, better ride, feels more like a luxury vehicle (though tesla has a long way to go in that department). model 3 was small, cramped, seats were hard, ride was too stiff, felt like a toy econobox to me. hated it. 'decked out interior?' WTF are you talking about. had a 3 reservation and cancelled it. i spent the extra 30K and bought a larger car.

3 is different and some like it better and good for them. they are entitled to that opinion and glad they got the car they wanted. an m3 or c63 amg beats an s550 or a 740i around the track. quite sure those guys with larger cars don't give a *sugar*.
 

Snowstorm

Active Member
Dec 8, 2016
1,490
1,407
Ontario Canada
I am in agreement with the OP that the higher end model 3 lines overlap significantly with model S that something about the model S has to change. Either it has to get better (V2), or they should shut it down to focus solely on the model 3.

The 5+2 passenger capacity of some S is a unique capability (I have an s100d with that config). But I only chose that because the X seats didn’t fold down in early 2017. Right now, if you need 7 seats, go get an X, if you have too much money and must have the fastest car in a straight line, get S-P100D, otherwise some form of the 3 is the best bet.
 

e-FTW

New electron smell
Aug 23, 2015
3,286
3,105
San Francisco, CA
Anyone who wants to whine about PM3 price is about to get wrecked so fair warning in advance.

Those good at analysis or at least interpreting the work of others should have reached the conclusion:

The Model 3 LR destroys the Model S in almost every area. The S only beats the 3 in very specific use case scenarios such as wanting to seat 5 adults and two children. Or if you must have the extra cargo capacity. The S cannot match the 3 in areas like being easier to park and the benefits of just having a smaller car.

The Model 3 beats the S so soundly that Tesla has to antisell the 3, and unreport range and performance.

The P Model 3 is $3.5K more, mid-single digit price premium over the BASIC MODEL S. It's

-Leaner
-More advanced technology
-Faster
-Decked out interior
-Carbon fiber spoiler (there's your badge to show off)
-Much more range.
-I know I'm missing much but no one really needs convincing here.

I think we know who wins the contest of Performance Model 3 vs Base Model S.

Rebuttals / Counter rebuttals

Elon said cheaper options on the 3 than the S. -Who cares what Elon said. Tesla needs to make some money. They can take mine if they would hurry up and let me order. Maybe you shouldn't of fired the website contractors so hastily!

The Tesla PM3 doesn't have bla bla bla on the BMW M3. - Umm no BMW is a Tesla. This can't be explained to you, you either get it or you don't. If you think the Tesla is not a BMW, there's no point convincing you. Go buy the BMW M3 and be done here.

Those not "impressed" can go impress themselves with something else. :D

Lastly, the PM3 is a disaster creator for the Model S. Look for real world PM3 specs to be better as advertised and look for the S to be made much beefier. It has to be. Otherwise, just shut the S line down except for P100D.
This. I never wanted such a large car as my S. I absolutely love it, but the 3 is the one I've wanted for over a decade. And it is my size.
Yup, am going from a Model S 70 to a maxed out P Model 3. YES!

Totally expect the S to get a solid makeover soon.
 

McRat

Well-Known Member
Jan 20, 2016
5,771
5,414
LA
Nobody can make a 200 mile EV with high performance (under 6 seconds to 60) with over 200 miles of range, and 5 seats for $36,000 at a profit with full 3D sensors.

Soon it will be possible. But not today.

An $80k (not black, with ACC) EV with 3.5s to sixty high performance and 300 miles of range is still unique. Only Tesla sells something with those specs or better.
 

eye.surgeon

Active Member
Nov 18, 2014
1,368
2,014
California
Your arguments are fairly circular. So the advantage of the M3 is it has all the advantages of a smaller car? OK...doesn't that mean the MS has all the advantages of a bigger car?

Saying the MS is only better in a very specific area--more interior space and more cargo capacity-- is kind of laughable because that's one of the major, if not THE major, decision points upon which a car is purchased.
 
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McRat

Well-Known Member
Jan 20, 2016
5,771
5,414
LA
Your truth bomb is more like a decision-reinforcement bomb. Saying the MS is only better in a very specific area--more interior space and more cargo capacity-- is kind of laughable because that's one of the major, if not THE major, decision points upon which a car is purchased.

If you have kids, sure.

If you want room, you are not shopping in the coupe, sedan, or hatchback segments.

I see a problem if Jaguar has enough iPace EVs available. $88k loaded with auto-steer and adaptive cruise?

No MS/X is going to be a better value.
 

Knightshade

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2017
11,644
15,713
NC
The most expensive Porsche, Chevrolet, Ford, etc, are also the smallest models.

Uh, no, they are not.

The most expensive ford car (The GT)which is a fair bit quicker than a P3D by the way) is 187.5 inches long and 78.9 inches wide.

The smallest ford car (the fiesta) is 159 inches long and 68.3 inches wide.


The most expensive Chevy car (the zr1 convertible) is 176.9 inches long by 73.9 wide

The smallest GM car (the spark) is 143.1 long by 62.8 wide



the most expensive porsche (a loaded up 911 GT2 RS) is 179.1 inches long and 74 inches wide

the smallest porsche (the boxster/cayman) is 172 inches long and 70.9 wide
 

Knightshade

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2017
11,644
15,713
NC
If you have kids, sure.

If you want room, you are not shopping in the coupe, sedan, or hatchback segments.

I mean- of course you are?

Otherwise why would Lexus sell any ES, GS, or LS sedans ever?

Or BMW sell any 5 or 7 series ones?

Or hell why would chevy ever sell an impala for that matter? Or Honda an accord over a civic or FIT? or Toyota a camry or avalon over a corolla?
 

TheSuit

Member
Aug 28, 2016
19
-32
NY
All due respect to the OP, but the P3D makes absolutely zero sense at it's insanely high price. For less than 5k more you get a fully loaded 75D. Air Suspension, Bioweapon defense mode, unlimited supercharging, better looking, better resale, and overall better car. You literally only lose .7 sec 0-60.

What happened here is Elon and team saw the demand for this car are started jacking up the prices on us after we've waited for 2 years. Total BS - this car should be 10k cheaper.
 

TT97

Active Member
Aug 6, 2017
2,171
2,898
Los Angeles
All due respect to the OP, but the P3D makes absolutely zero sense at it's insanely high price. For less than 5k more you get a fully loaded 75D. Air Suspension, Bioweapon defense mode, unlimited supercharging, better looking, better resale, and overall better car. You literally only lose .7 sec 0-60.

What happened here is Elon and team saw the demand for this car are started jacking up the prices on us after we've waited for 2 years. Total BS - this car should be 10k cheaper.

This is why they can sell both. There are people like you that think it is priced $10k too high and would prefer a larger car while other people think it is priced right or even a little low and prefer more manageable cars than larger ones.
 
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timk225

Active Member
Mar 24, 2016
2,031
1,057
Pittsburgh
Since Tesla seems to value high dollar options on cars, I am willing to suffer for performance. Give me a 3 with the big battery, dual motor, and 3.5 0-60 speed. I'll make my life horrible by doing without the luxury items of heated seats, leather interior, fancy stereo, and glass roof.

That car ought to cost around $55K or so.
 

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