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Performance Model 3 is too cheap - about to drop some truth bombs.

TheSuit

Member
Aug 28, 2016
19
-32
NY
This is why they can sell both. There are people like you that think it is priced $10k too high and would prefer a larger car while other people think it is priced right or even a little low and prefer more manageable cars than larger ones.

Unfortunately for Tesla and myself, I won't be buying either - very disapointed
 
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McRat

Well-Known Member
Jan 20, 2016
5,771
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Uh, no, they are not.

The most expensive ford car (The GT)which is a fair bit quicker than a P3D by the way) is 187.5 inches long and 78.9 inches wide.

The smallest ford car (the fiesta) is 159 inches long and 68.3 inches wide.


The most expensive Chevy car (the zr1 convertible) is 176.9 inches long by 73.9 wide

The smallest GM car (the spark) is 143.1 long by 62.8 wide



the most expensive porsche (a loaded up 911 GT2 RS) is 179.1 inches long and 74 inches wide

the smallest porsche (the boxster/cayman) is 172 inches long and 70.9 wide

The most expensive car Ford, GM, Porsche sells is not their big cars.

PS- Convertibles aren't cars. They are dog carts with engines. They are akin to selling condoms that are open-ended on both sides.
 

skitown

Member
Dec 28, 2015
869
2,255
Central Idaho, U.S.A, Earth
Model 3 vs Model S ♞

Educate yourself please. Any version of the 3 beats the equivalent version of the S.

I have an X so I have no horse to defend. My smart money goes to the smarter value car.
I hear you. But, I have an S, and I'm also buying a 3. Our S is effectively our SUV. It has a ton more utility. If a person wants a Tesla w/alot of utility they need to spring for an S or X. A 3 can never replace our S simply because it's a sedan. Full stop. For us and a lot of S owners, this is the case.
 

ShockOnT

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Jun 26, 2016
3,346
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All due respect to the OP, but the P3D makes absolutely zero sense at it's insanely high price. For less than 5k more you get a fully loaded 75D. Air Suspension, Bioweapon defense mode, unlimited supercharging, better looking, better resale, and overall better car. You literally only lose .7 sec 0-60.

What happened here is Elon and team saw the demand for this car are started jacking up the prices on us after we've waited for 2 years. Total BS - this car should be 10k cheaper.
The performance model 3 wasn't promised 2 years ago. That was fan-fiction until recently.
 

ShockOnT

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Jun 26, 2016
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Unfortunately for Tesla and myself, I won't be buying either - very disapointed
Don't be disappointed, just get the LR RWD, or wait for the SR RWD.
The S was out of my reach for ages, until I realized that the 75D had exactly the same features as the 100D or P100D.
You still get all the toys with the cheapest model 3, don't worry about AWD or performance.
 
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MXWing

Well-Known Member
Oct 13, 2016
7,318
18,033
USA
I am in agreement with the OP that the higher end model 3 lines overlap significantly with model S that something about the model S has to change. Either it has to get better (V2), or they should shut it down to focus solely on the model 3.

The 5+2 passenger capacity of some S is a unique capability (I have an s100d with that config). But I only chose that because the X seats didn’t fold down in early 2017. Right now, if you need 7 seats, go get an X, if you have too much money and must have the fastest car in a straight line, get S-P100D, otherwise some form of the 3 is the best bet.

-You get it- Upvoting not related with your endorsement but is appreciated.

X beats the S as well for 6 passengers being comfortable but 7 really piles it on.

Any trim of the 3 is a better value proposition than the equivalent of an S - standard, long range or performance.

You have a lot of people upset because they think I just think the 3 is better in every way. It’s not better in every way but has better value - this is not debatable.

If a car was free, give me the P100D S.

If I had to pay for one, PM3 or AWDM3 (which is best overall value IMO)
 

Ofarlig

Member
Mar 4, 2018
283
246
Sweden
I am not sure about the 3 to be honest, I am lacking a lot on it (IC screen, a better steering wheel, heated steering wheel, biodefence filters and such).

Just got my S75D and I like it even though it is bigger than I need and a lot bigger than my previous cars. I am liking the comfortable ride, quietness and such so I might be getting accustomed to a more comfortable car than the sporty ones I had before.

Will I get the P3? Maybe, we will see once it gets here. Might just go for P100D instead if I want speed or a new S75D if they refreshed it and I am happy with the current speed. Although I am feeling that I do not really need that much more speed, this level is plenty for every day driving and if I wanted something to toss around back roads it would be smaller than both.

Value is dependant on who is shopping. My guess is the 3 lacks a lot of features I want, which makes it's value proposition not that great to me.
 
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ShockOnT

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Jun 26, 2016
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I think current Tesla owners aren't the market the M3 is designed for.
There are millions of people driving Subarus who could never spend $100K+ on a Tesla who are waiting for this car.
 

12Pack

..
Aug 25, 2017
405
258
Manchester, UK / SFO, US
Strange original post making this some sort of fan-boy competition between the M3 and MS.

Of course the Model 3, once generally available, will be the first choice for those who want a smaller car. Sure, it will take up Model S sales from those who had to have a Tesla but didn't want to wait for the Model 3., But there will always be a segment that prefers the larger, quieter car. As others have said, size is one of the first items that defines a segment.

And there will also be those who have the money, and want to spend it on an obviously more expensive car.

In Europe, there are plenty of Merc S-class, A8 and 7 series cars - even those with the smallest engine in the line-up.
 
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jaguar36

Active Member
Apr 10, 2014
2,040
1,501
NJ
Any trim of the 3 is a better value proposition than the equivalent of an S - standard, long range or performance.
Nope. If you value the extra space in the S it beats the 3 in every comparison.

You seem to be completely missing the point that they are different cars for different markets. Just like the M3 vs the 5-series, or the Focus RS vs the Fusion or the Civic R vs the Accord.
 
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novox77

1.21 Gigawatts
Nov 25, 2017
1,637
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NH, MA
I think P3D is going to be a more practical performance car than P[Model S]D due to its lighter weight. We're going to see lots more impressive track results with the 3.

I would think anyone attracted to the P3D is someone who values driving characteristics, even if you never go on a track, and it's there that Model 3 trounces the S.

I still love our Model S. It is a great travel car, has more convenient storage, and it looks amazing. Definitely get more head turns in the S than the 3, despite the 3 being so rare still. I think that's a testament to the body design. However, the 3 gets more random walk-arounds than the S, probably because no one knows it exists :D
 
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jbcarioca

Well-Known Member
Feb 3, 2015
5,170
24,379
Strange ..

And there will also be those who have the money, and want to spend it on an obviously more expensive car.

...
It is strange that many people do not realize that some people choose size over maneuverability, some people choose performance over economy, some people choose price over features. Many of those who are in one category think the others are either stupid or crazed with unwise emotions.

The entire reason for offering diverse choices is that all people do not want the same thing. In the meantime any sane people desiring the "top of the line, fully loaded" knows that the price will be roughly 2 1/2 times the base price. So it is with Model 3:

Base SR: US$35,000
Loaded P including EAP and FSD: US$86,000
That is the way it almost always is between base and 'loaded'
Surprise: The highest margin models come first.

I really can not understand why anyone is surprised or dismayed by this.

For reference, supporting @12Pack , taking Autocar prices:
Mercedes-Benz 350d SE: GBP 70,470
Mercedes-Maybach S600: GBP 172, 285
These are the same basic car. Not by accident the span between 'base' and 'loaded' is nearly identical percentage as the base Model 3 and the Model P3
And so it goes...
The absolute top never has the highest volumes but GM is astonishing! Every buyer knows that.

FWIW, my Model 3 order places late last night was for US$86,000. Rational, obviously not! Does doing that make me happy! Absolutely! Of course i am a TSLA shareholder so I applaud high GM's.
 

Runt8

Active Member
May 19, 2017
1,986
2,372
Colorado
All due respect to the OP, but the P3D makes absolutely zero sense at it's insanely high price. For less than 5k more you get a fully loaded 75D. Air Suspension, Bioweapon defense mode, unlimited supercharging, better looking, better resale, and overall better car. You literally only lose .7 sec 0-60.

What happened here is Elon and team saw the demand for this car are started jacking up the prices on us after we've waited for 2 years. Total BS - this car should be 10k cheaper.
You forgot one of the biggest differences - 259 mile range on the 75D vs 310 on the Model 3. I was on the fence between getting an S and a 3 (I love them both, for different reasons). The main deciding factor was the higher range on the 3 (and I couldn’t afford the 100D in order to get more range).

My main concern with the P3 is the value proposition when compared to the AWD non-P. I just don’t see what you get that’s possibly worth $20,000.
 
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McRat

Well-Known Member
Jan 20, 2016
5,771
5,414
LA
...
My main concern with the P3 is the value proposition when compared to the AWD non-P. I just don’t see what you get that’s possibly worth $20,000.
More power.

That's usually one of the more expensive options in a car.

We know it's getting wheels, paint, spoiler, AWD included. We don't know what else yet.

$20k when it comes to performance isn't much.

And it's a 'want' when it comes to cars, not a needed unless it's so slow it can have safety issues.

The power to weight on a Model 3LR is about identical to the Model S75D.

It will outrun all the true "retail" cars from the 1960's, like the 426ci Hemi. No, they didn't run 12's as sold, at least not one you could buy. The 3LR is a low 13 second car.

Trivia - The Ferrari F40, one of the cars that defines Supercar, runs 0-60mph in 4.2 second. You had to have the approval of Enzo to get one IIRC. Tubular frame (oval chromemoly) mid engine, Kevlar composite body, essentially a race car that had been street lights put on it.
 
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ky_soldier

Member
Aug 15, 2017
33
3
Prospect, KY
I was thinking about this today. I have a 6 month old Model S 75 (rwd). It has the high speed charging, 21” arachnids, and autopilot 2.5. What it also has std is air suspension, glass roof, alcantara headliner, better displays etc. It’s a 4.3 0-60 so to go to a M3P at 3.5 I feel like I’d be giving up a lot. I like the idea of the more nimble and quicker vehicle but I think I need more convincing.
 

chickensworth

Member
May 14, 2018
300
374
las vegas
More power.

That's usually one of the more expensive options in a car.

We know it's getting wheels, paint, spoiler, AWD included. We don't know what else yet.

$20k when it comes to performance isn't much.

And it's a 'want' when it comes to cars, not a needed unless it's so slow it can have safety issues.

The power to weight on a Model 3LR is about identical to the Model S75D.

It will outrun all the true "retail" cars from the 1960's, like the 426ci Hemi. No, they didn't run 12's as sold, at least not one you could buy. The 3LR is a low 13 second car.

Trivia - The Ferrari F40, one of the cars that defines Supercar, runs 0-60mph in 4.2 second. You had to have the approval of Enzo to get one IIRC. Tubular frame (oval chromemoly) mid engine, Kevlar composite body, essentially a race car that had been street lights put on it.

Not sure comparing the 3 to 60’s muscle cars or a 30 year old supercar is relevant. Even a new Honda Odyssey or Toyota Sienna would smoke Magnum PI on a drag strip.

Elon says the 3 performance will beat ‘any car In it’s class on a track’ ... So people are rightly speculating on what else is gained for 20k aside from straight line acceleration.

We’ve seen video of the model 3 at the track with cooked brakes and a suspension struggling to handle its portly body... will the P get upgraded brakes and suspension? To beat an M3 on track it would... but we haven’t heard anything other than more straight line speed.
 

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