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Discussion in 'Model 3' started by Dan_LA, Jan 3, 2019.
Tesla didn’t test the 20’s.
Also AWD vs RWD is different according to the Energy app in the car. MPGe on the stickers are different too. Yet they get listed as the same range.
I get the EPA rated mileage, but temps here get into the 60s during the day, there is rarely rain, snow or ice, and I preheat the car for fifteen minutes while it's still plugged in. I've found that even gas cars get cruddy mileage in deep midwinter, headwinds, rain, cold parking, etc. Gas cars need engine block heaters, thinner oil, and other help. I'm not surprised that a Performance Model 3 gets cruddy mileage, too.
They rated 3 different LR models (RWD, AWD, and the original Performance). The rating for the RWD model is actually significantly higher than 310. The EPA lets Tesla “down rate” them, which they did so that they could simplify the offerings and make sure people didn’t have an incentive to buy the cheaper one.
Who does not know that RWD is always more efficient then AWD?
And who doesn't know that performance tires are always less efficient than high mileage tires?
Yes, that was my point, performance wasn't separately rated by the EPA nor range estimated by Tesla aside from giving it the same range as the other models.
Again this is false, see the link I posted above. However, they didn’t rate the PUP (with 20” wheels), just the old Performance model (AWD with software unlock), which got virtually the same rating as the regular AWD.
Tesla downrated the RWD model to match the AWD and (old) Performance ones at 310.
I already answered this as did the link. The EPA mileage results and eMPG figures are different for all three cars. Tesla opted to down rate the RWD model to 310 (from 334) to make all the LR models have the same rating, which they’re allowed to do.
More details here:
Tesla Model 3 Long Range All-Wheel Drive & Performance Editions Get Official EPA Ratings | CleanTechnica
That isn't true, on the Model S the AWD cars are more efficient than the RWD cars were.
No I'm quite certain performance was never tested as the EPA doesn't require it for model variations that account for less than 35% of total volume. EPA allows the rating on the car tested to be applied to the untested model variations. Car manufacturers don't give the government any more information than they need to.
Two important factors for about EPA range.....
1. EPA tests are done on a dyno, indoors at ROOM Temperature
2. EPA range is a composite of 55% city and 45% highway. And although there is an acceleration component to the test with speed up to 80 mph, the highway portion reaches a max of only 60mph. There is also an air conditioning component to the test but I haven't seen any mention of a heater component.
Exactly. EPA is who comes up with these numbers. As I understand it, EPA estimate was actually higher but Tesla asked to advertise a lower (310) figure. Which I guess is something they allow manufacturers to do (advertise lower than actual EPA rates, but obviously not the other way around).
Also, as with gasoline or diesel cars, the EPA mileage is not in any way a "promise". In fact, I'd guess that 90%+ of any car owner (electric or otherwise) probably do not get the advertised range and/or MPG that is on their window sticker. A large part of that is how you drive (55-65mph vs 75-85mph) as well as conditions (hills, weather, etc.). Pretty sure not getting EPA range (or MPG) is not specific to Tesla.
Though I can understand that such a difference from your RWD version is shocking. Should Tesla "under advertise" even further for P3Ds? Maybe. But I don't think they will. They want to have "long range" mean 310 miles, regardless of 3 LR, 3D or P3D it looks like.
Sorry in advance for the "rant-ish" post...
First of all, the M3P is a SPORTS CAR. Yes, I would strongly argue that it is the FINEST EVERYDAY DRIVING SPORTS CAR EVER DESIGNED, but make no mistake it is a SPORTS CAR. If you want a commuter the LR or MR are there for the asking.
And, despite the M3P being a Sports Car, it both CAN and DOES fairly easily get 310 miles on a charge. I am getting very close to that when it is 33 degrees out with an elevation change of 500 feet (in each direction) on my roundtrip commutes. I have done that on both the Michelin Pilot Sport 4S stock wheels / tires AND my current "winter" Michelin A/S 3+ tires (also on stock 20" wheels). As a matter of fact, the range difference between the two sets of tires is at most a couple of Wh/mile.
So much is not said here about driver responsibility in achieving range. When I drive the M3P like a true sports care enthusiast my Wh/mi can climb well into the 300's (350-375 Wh/mi). When I am commuting and using the car as transportation only (albeit awesome / fun transportation) that number is down between 235-260 Wh/mi -- well within the EPA's and Tesla's stated range.
Similarly, I used to own a 2007 Ferrari 430 with a stated combined EPA of 13mpg (11 city / 16 highway). Now that was NOT a commuter car / daily driver and accordingly I usually drove it like a sports car, and I NEVER came close to those numbers. The BEST combined MPG I ever got on a tank was 10 MPG (yes, you read that horrifying number correctly) and more often it was down around 9 MPG. But I drove the car hard. Can you imagine me (or anyone else) getting on a Ferrari Chat Board with a headline saying "Ferrari 430 not getting MPG Promised?"
Its da heat. RWD 50% range loss in the cold worst case. Avg 30 percent range loss for winter.
You made my point. Thanks.
Indeed, heat is a range killer!
After driving my Model-3 for past few month, I can safely say that under common driving scenarios, we never will ever get those fully advertised 310 miles ever.... period!
Even If you drive non-stop in a somewhat "controlled" (i.e not applying brakes, no sudden accelerations, no AC/Heating, not heated seats, no head winds... the list goes on) environment & within the EPA recommended speeds, still you will be short of a few miles to reach that 310 miles.
So, like me, relax at the thought that we still pay less than our gas "cousins" to fill up our Model-3 "tanks" and enjoy the car..
Range impact on gas cars due to cold weather is about 10% MPG down to about 20F. On my Tesla in similar temps the range impact is more like 40% initially and over a longer duration drive it evens out to around 30%.
I would wager all (most) that loss is due to heat. Which there isn’t anything you can do about in an electric vehicle. They are too efficient to produce much waste heat like gas cars.
My limited understanding is that use of a heat pump similar to what Nissan did in the 2nd gen Leaf and what BMW did with the i3 would substantially reduce the energy use needed to heat the cabin.
Tesla basically has an electric resistive heating element in the Model 3 similar to what is used in a toaster or an electric dryer. The car then uses a fan to blow this warm air out into the cabin.
A heat pump warms a fluid with good thermal retention properties and circulates it on a loop where it can then be delivered via fan to the cabin. Fluid that still retains some thermal energy is recirculated through the heat exchanger so that the energy is not lost.
I believe that geothermal heating/cooling systems work on a similar principal.