Performance not performing

[Aggs18]

I'm not in denial about there being issues. There clearly are. But the OP's issue is clearly worse than most.

I just can't help but think that if ALL 4Q20 and 1Q21 P's sold in GB-type (or colder) climates were routinely suffering from severe performance loss at low SoC, then we would be seeing a lot more shouting and negative press than there has been.

I’m hoping so but if a reply from Tesla acknowledges something then that’s more than 1 (previous email to Jez_gb). Also not everyone is into forums etc so may be a few we havnt heard about.

 

[Durzel]

The good news is:

1. Tesla appear to have acknowledged it as an issue
2. They have said that it "should be improved" in 2021.4.11 (whether that is true or not is anyone's guess)
3. I would be amazed if the scavenge rate of the heatpump wasn't configurable (assuming that is the root cause of the problem)
4. The MIC M3P might not be affected at all - no one has one yet.

The bad news is:

1. Tesla's timeframe for fixing anything is glacial
2. You'd be well outside any return window by the time they are likely to fix it.
3. Therefore you'd have to choose to keep the car (and hope that Tesla don't just forget about the problem / do actually fix it to your satisfaction) or return it until they do.

Not a great position to be in all things considered.

 

[Mattallica]

Forgive me for stating the obvious (as a non-owner yet): can't you preheat the batteries whilst parked up at home to mitigate against this issue?

 

[ACarneiro]

The good news is:

1. Tesla appear to have acknowledged it as an issue
2. They have said that it "should be improved" in 2021.4.11 (whether that is true or not is anyone's guess)
3. I would be amazed if the scavenge rate of the heatpump wasn't configurable (assuming that is the root cause of the problem)
4. The MIC M3P might not be affected at all - no one has one yet.

The bad news is:

1. Tesla's timeframe for fixing anything is glacial
2. You'd be well outside any return window by the time they are likely to fix it.
3. Therefore you'd have to choose to keep the car (and hope that Tesla don't just forget about the problem / do actually fix it to your satisfaction) or return it until they do.

Not a great position to be in all things considered.

I would absolutely not wait for "a fix in the next software update" if that meant me losing the chance to return the car.
Better to get rid of the P and get a LR instead, Tesla as a company can't be trusted to do anything they claim they will.

I do sound very bitter and resentful but I want to make it clear that I love my car and I've never had any problems with it. This is just based on seeing what other posters go through and from previous attempts at contacting Tesla for other products (namely Powerwall) and for inconsistencies with their referral programme (never had a reply to any emails).
They're growing so fast that they can't organise a pissup in a brewery at the moment.

 

[Adopado]

Forgive me for stating the obvious (as a non-owner yet): can't you preheat the batteries whilst parked up at home to mitigate against this issue?

Yes in theory, but particularly in the case of the heat pump models (all the new Model 3s) you don't really know what's going on "under the hood" with regards to heating and temperatures. The car has an "octovalve" that can redirect heat from one location and use it in another. It can take or send heat to the battery or cabin or motors in multiple variations. The octovalve is very very likely to be under software control. So a bug might mean that heat is not actually being delivered to the battery when you think it is. It is also reported to scavenge heat from the battery to heat the cabin and not just take heat out of the ambient temperature air (which is what you would normally expect). There is a lot of scope for changes that may completely remove this issue but nobody outside Tesla really knows. People with access to the canbus data are able to see what's happening with temperatures so we do know that the battery temperature being low is an issue.

The non heat pump models have only two sources of heat ... electric restive heater or heat from the motors ... they never scavenge heat from the battery as far as I know. If you precondition (you just switch on "climate" and the car decides if and how much battery heating to apply in addition to cabin heating) with these cars the motors do their stator heating trick and that is used to warm the battery and the restive heater heats the cabin. In theory that could/should be happening with the heat pump cars too (without restive heater but taking heat out of the air for the cabin) so maybe preconditioning will indeed help.

 

[GRiLLA]

If your collecting from Tesla SC and have a chance to “inspect the goods” prior to accepting them (which you do) then your going to struggle to argue that as the distance selling regulations actual wording is in relation to the buyer not having a chance to see the physical goods before buying - hence why it’s “ days from delivery...”

if they deliver the car to you though I guess you could try

Of course this is in relation to you just not wanting the item - if there’s a fault then it’s a totally different story!

Read the Order Agreement for your car, that contains all the terms of sale, including documenting the 14 day return window to inform them, the actually return 'without undue delay and no more than 14 days'.

 

[Peanut M3P]

I emailed them as well regarding the drop in performance issue. I will report back with what they say. Do we have an idea weather this is unique to M3P? Are the LR not affected? I'm considering switching now as I don't want this issue creeping up. It gets pretty cold in Ireland over the Winter with the temp falling below 7 Celsius regularly which is when the issue becomes apparent

 

[Sabs]

I emailed them as well regarding the drop in performance issue. I will report back with what they say. Do we have an idea weather this is unique to M3P? Are the LR not affected? I'm considering switching now as I don't want this issue creeping up. It gets pretty cold in Ireland over the Winter with the temp falling below 7 Celsius regularly which is when the issue becomes apparent

I've got a MIC LR and have just taken it out at 23% charge, it doesn't feel like there is any drop off when you floor it compared to it being at 80%+ charge.

 

[Kerry Blue]

2021 M3P battery warm approx 60% charge. Slowest I’ve had with 1ft roll out is 3.32. As you can see all runs are below freezing. Also included 30-
70 as that roughly equates to 0-60 without traction issues.

 

[btc1k]

Forgive me if I'm missing something with that last post...

but the OP issue was slow acceleration at low states of charge <50%, combined with a low battery temp (8c).

Those runs are great - but they are on a warm battery at 60%.... So not really sure what they show in relation to the issues reported.

Are you able to show us some cold runs at say 20%? Would be helpful. Thanks.

 

[btc1k]

I emailed them as well regarding the drop in performance issue. I will report back with what they say. Do we have an idea weather this is unique to M3P? Are the LR not affected? I'm considering switching now as I don't want this issue creeping up. It gets pretty cold in Ireland over the Winter with the temp falling below 7 Celsius regularly which is when the issue becomes apparent

2021 LR numbers seem reasonable until <20% where they drop by 0.5 sec. At 10% it's 6 sec which still isn't too bad.

The 2021 P starts dropping at 40% (not badly), but at 30% its 6 sec, 20% its 9sec and 10% well... I could run faster

 

[btc1k]

Yes in theory, but particularly in the case of the heat pump models (all the new Model 3s) you don't really know what's going on "under the hood" with regards to heating and temperatures. The car has an "octovalve" that can redirect heat from one location and use it in another. It can take or send heat to the battery or cabin or motors in multiple variations. The octovalve is very very likely to be under software control. So a bug might mean that heat is not actually being delivered to the battery when you think it is. It is also reported to scavenge heat from the battery to heat the cabin and not just take heat out of the ambient temperature air (which is what you would normally expect). There is a lot of scope for changes that may completely remove this issue but nobody outside Tesla really knows. People with access to the canbus data are able to see what's happening with temperatures so we do know that the battery temperature being low is an issue.

The non heat pump models have only two sources of heat ... electric restive heater or heat from the motors ... they never scavenge heat from the battery as far as I know. If you precondition (you just switch on "climate" and the car decides if and how much battery heating to apply in addition to cabin heating) with these cars the motors do their stator heating trick and that is used to warm the battery and the restive heater heats the cabin. In theory that could/should be happening with the heat pump cars too (without restive heater but taking heat out of the air for the cabin) so maybe preconditioning will indeed help.

Great explanation.

Do we know if the 2021's have a restive heater in addition to heatpump and motor stator heat?

 

[M3P_W8]

View attachment 655924
2021 LR numbers seem reasonable until <20% where they drop by 0.5 sec. At 10% it's 6 sec which still isn't too bad.

The 2021 P starts dropping at 40% (not badly), but at 30% its 6 sec, 20% its 9sec and 10% well... I could run faster

Data points we have in this thread for 2021 M3P 0-60 @ 60% Charge:

• OP = 6 seconds!
• Data Above = 4 seconds
• @Kerry Blue = 3.32 seconds

Clearly all this data gathered under different conditions, but it does seem to indicate that the OP is suffering from a separate issue.

..... but it would be helpful if @Kerry Blue was able to share similar data for runs made at 20%/30% charge?

Out of interest, where did the Excel data come from and do we know what the ambient conditions were?

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

Forgive me if I'm missing something with that last post...

but the OP issue was slow acceleration at low states of charge <50%, combined with a low battery temp (8c).

Those runs are great - but they are on a warm battery at 60%.... So not really sure what they show in relation to the issues reported.

Are you able to show us some cold runs at say 20%? Would be helpful. Thanks.

I agree and I think its potentially more complex with battery changes not exactly corresponding with the model year changes so its possible some 2021 cars had the 2020 battery.

 

[Kerry Blue]

Posted 60% as OP stated a significantly slower time at 60%. I don’t have numbers for a lower soc but I’ll try and get some over the next few days.

 

[Adopado]

Great explanation.

Do we know if the 2021's have a restive heater in addition to heatpump and motor stator heat?

I haven’t read anywhere that there is also some back up restive heat available (other than the stator heating method if you regard that as such).

 

[CorneliusRox]

Hey guys,

I didn't do anything scientific, but I started doing 0-60 pulls over the last couple days at various SoC. 90-50% felt pretty close and the crappy phone app I was using showed similar times. Going all the way to >15% and it felt really good. Less than 5sec 0-60. Then I hit 15% and it was SLOW.
Keep in mind, I'm in MN, it was 38F, and after 50min of driving, I never got rid of the dotted acceleration line.

Anyway, just wanted to throw out that it's not quite as bad as I've been reading. Maybe it's the latest software patch? I don't know.

 

[btc1k]

Hey guys,

I didn't do anything scientific, but I started doing 0-60 pulls over the last couple days at various SoC. 90-50% felt pretty close and the crappy phone app I was using showed similar times. Going all the way to >15% and it felt really good. Less than 5sec 0-60. Then I hit 15% and it was SLOW.
Keep in mind, I'm in MN, it was 38F, and after 50min of driving, I never got rid of the dotted acceleration line.

Anyway, just wanted to throw out that it's not quite as bad as I've been reading. Maybe it's the latest software patch? I don't know.

Thanks, another good piece of real world info.

I think it is possibly reasonable to experience slow acceleration from a very low battery... As you won't be down there often, you'd hope.

But a sub 5 sec.... well the LR can do that across a wider range than the P it seems.

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

I saw on pistonheads somebody else say they had a similar issue with a UK P3D 2021 - unless its someone on here.

Variability with the same battery and software is worse than conistency - I guess something like a rogue temperature sensor batch could be causing it and I believe the heat pumps had a lot of issues with a dodgy batch of sensors.

 

[btc1k]

New video just landed from Bjorn, that was where I got the spreadsheets from originally, he has a website...