Performance not performing

[PITA]

All the above is noted, but the original point of this thread is that some perfomance models are not performing. Would you still be happy if you no longer had the fastest 0-60?

If the car I purchased suddenly lost all it's performance (and was out of spec or below expectations) then no, I would not be happy and the item would not be as described.

But so far mine is meeting my expectations, in fact, exceeding them. (but it's early days as only done 750 miles)

Would you go out on a track when a LR would beat you?

Well yes I would, of course. If my car was performing and within expectations, then a LR going faster is something an experienced driver can come to terms with.

We're not children any more, and there are many factors why another driver might be faster, even in a much slower car.

However, if my car was 'broken' and underperforming then again no, I wouldn't be happy.

Having a LR car beat me in a unregulated race isn't going to upset me, I already know there's nothing in it once on the move.

...but there are some that aren't as fast as the LR. Would you be happy with all the above equipment if it was slower than an LR?

If there's a problem, it needs to be fixed. But driving to enjoy oneself doesn't need to involve someone else in another car.

Displeasing or beating someone else is not the purpose of me owning this car. I bought it for my own enjoyment.

 

[PITA]

I'd be very interested in upgrading the Anti-roll bars front and rear... though

 

[PITA]

This reminds me of a story...

I did a lot of karting years ago, and got quite good at it.

I was at the Daytona International Race Circuit in Milton Keynes on a Corporate event.

One guy was very competitive and was absolutely convinced his kart was faulty. Was making a scene in the pit lane with the Marshalls checking it over, then them telling him theres nothing wrong with it.

So frustrated sat behind being held up, I jumped out, and told him to take mine, as he'd seen me blast past him up the back straight hill... and my lap times were way faster than his.

I jumped in his kart... forgoing my kart number and lap times.

Pulled over to let him past and then followed him out onto the track and sure enough, blasted past him again up the back straight hill.

He left unhappy... he was just crap at driving. Didn't understand his vehicle and did all the wrong things failing to make it quick. If there had been an online forum, I can imagine what his dialogue would've been like back then

It's actually not always the car

 

[PITA]

I can't see that anyone has mentioned it, but have you also checked your acceleration is not set to "Chill".

This made me laugh... because it wouldn't be beyond reasonable doubt

... and highlights the type of thing I was referring to in my previous post, as a possibility.

I've seen some proper stroppy driver behaviour in my time, when the fault has firmly been placed upon them. Not the car.... and they REALLY don't like that

But hey, ho... life goes on.

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

The point of the thread is Tesla have told multiple M3P owners with the newer battery that the car is just cold when it’s been taking way over 5s to hit 60s. The problem last winter was fairly well established by multiple owners.

I therefore don’t think it helps or adds much saying ‘I’ve not had the problem since I got my car a month ago in summer’ as that’s not the condition when the problem occurs. Chill mode’ can also be discounted as the problem goes away once the car is warmer or has a higher state of charge.

People mean well but it’s just unnecessary noise to talk about track day exploits or accuse the driver when it’s gone way past that stage.

 

[PITA]

The point of the thread is Tesla have told multiple M3P owners with the newer battery that the car is just cold when it’s been taking way over 5s to hit 60s. The problem last winter was fairly well established by multiple owners.

But that's exactly my point.

Tesla, who know what they're talking about, have told owners the cars are behaving within spec. 0-60mph in Winter in 6 seconds is more than enough. If the battery is 8 degrees, what's the road temperature for goodness sakes?

Got in touch with tesla who downloaded the logs (?), and said the car is acting "within spec". whatever that means.

....Went back to tesla this morning with that info and they said it was designed that way to protect the battery and extend range, its within spec and I basically I have to live with it

So the car isn't broken... it's Winter... you should be slowing down anyways. It's still an 1800kg car on cold tyres.

People can be unbelievably stupid

 

[Dangerous Fish]

Even in a UK winter, the battery and inverters can (eventually) be brought up to the required temperature if you understand how the system works and then the car will accelerate just as fast as in the summer. The fastest 0-60 times I've measured in mine were in winter, with winter tyres fitted.

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

But that's exactly my point.

Tesla, who know what they're talking about, have told owners the cars are behaving within spec. 0-60mph in Winter in 6 seconds is more than enough. If the battery is 8 degrees, what's the road temperature for goodness sakes?



So the car isn't broken... it's Winter... you should be slowing down anyways. It's still an 1800kg car on cold tyres.

People can be unbelievably stupid

And that’s entirely the wrong point.

Tesla have fobbed off owners as the earlier battery didn’t suffer the same way and the LR was faster. If you don’t understand the history of the thread then maybe you should take some time to understand it before posting again

 

[Adopado]

o the car isn't broken... it's Winter... you should be slowing down anyways. It's still an 1800kg car on cold tyres.

Bjorn Nyland has some detailed testing that you can see on YouTube which shows the issue. Winter temperatures have an impact on all evs but this is a specific additional issue that is model specific.

 

[PITA]

And that’s entirely the wrong point.

Tesla have fobbed off owners as the earlier battery didn’t suffer the same way and the LR was faster. If you don’t understand the history of the thread then maybe you should take some time to understand it before posting again

But why would I care the Long Range is faster in Winter? Why?

Tesla say the car is within spec...

It's Winter... Slow Down...

It's not difficult

 

[DrJFoster]

But why would I care the Long Range is faster in Winter? Why?

Tesla say the car is within spec...

It's Winter... Slow Down...

It's not difficult

You've added absolutely nothing to this discussion., you don't understand the problem, you don't have any empathy for any of those who have experienced the issue last winter, you like the sound of your own voice and think you know all there is to know in the few weeks you've been here. You are at least living up to your initials.

 

[M3P_W8]

If anyone has some recent practical experience of their Performance under performing at low temp/SoC I would love to hear about it.

Perhaps those who like to debate whether or not an LR with AB is better than a P should start a new thread on the subject so I can more easily ignore it!?

Clearly there is/was an issue with the P at both low SoC and temp. Bjorn's video was a practical demonstration of the issue. I understand that Tesla even acknowledged this and said they were working on it.

The unfortunate issue reported by the OP was on another scale altogether. I haven't seen or heard of anyone else suffering as badly as them.

I'm one of the many who received their new P in June (after a long wait!) and I've thoroughly enjoyed it during all of the lovely warm months that have since passed (rarely at low SoC).

I'm sure if the low temp/SoC combo issue has not been resolved by recent updates then loud noises will soon be made by all the 2021 P buyers in all the cold regions of the world where they have been sold as as we further progress into autumn/winter.

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

It’s 17C at nearly 10PM, nobody is going to have experienced the cold conditions for months so until the weather starts to change and we start getting close to zero temperatures over night we simply won’t know whether it’s addressed.

I wouldn’t hold out much hope though that Tesla will do anything on an individual basis. They have form on this resulting in a number of class legal actions over the years. That said I’m sure they will try and improve things if they can, but not all problems are solvable in software

 

[Dangerous Fish]

We see the same comments every winter - performance complaints and range complaints.
Complaining alone proves that not enough research has been carried out by the complainant to understand the issues.
Let's remember ICE cars. They didn't work well when the engine was really cold. Or really hot. It's similar.

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

We see the same comments every winter - performance complaints and range complaints.
Complaining alone proves that not enough research has been carried out by the complainant to understand the issues.
Let's remember ICE cars. They didn't work well when the engine was really cold. Or really hot. It's similar.

From my reading of the problem its not the usual "Winter its worse" type question. I've had Teslas for 6 winters, this will be my 7th, I can spot the "why is my regen low when its -10 degress outside?" questions from those threads linked to chargegate, batterygate, Tesla limiting the number of launches cars with ludicrous could give etc etc and now potentially this where there is a systemic issue that simply wasn't present in the previous battery used in the M3P. I think it would be wrong to either assume its the former nor assume Tesla haven't tried to fix it, but right now, we don't know because its relatively mild. The same goes for the LFP batteries in the SR+.

I'll ask you a different way - if your current M3P had a performance profile in winter that you're familar with, and you changed the car to a newer version and that performance profile was fairly significantly worse when cold, to the point that your M3LR performed better, would you be querying it?

Why are we so keen to dismiss the subject until we know more?

 

[PITA]

From my reading of the problem its not the usual "Winter its worse" type question. I've had Teslas for 6 winters, this will be my 7th, I can spot the "why is my regen low when its -10 degress outside?" questions from those threads linked to chargegate, batterygate, Tesla limiting the number of launches cars with ludicrous could give etc etc and now potentially this where there is a systemic issue that simply wasn't present in the previous battery used in the M3P. I think it would be wrong to either assume its the former nor assume Tesla haven't tried to fix it, but right now, we don't know because its relatively mild. The same goes for the LFP batteries in the SR+.

I'll ask you a different way - if your current M3P had a performance profile in winter that you're familar with, and you changed the car to a newer version and that performance profile was fairly significantly worse when cold, to the point that your M3LR performed better, would you be querying it?

Why are we so keen to dismiss the subject until we know more?

Let me throw it around the other way.

What if the previous battery setup (that performed well during Winter) was actually damaging the battery cells or motors in some way.

The consumer wouldn't neccessarily have noticed this risk, but Tesla decided to take action , restrict the power profiles on newer cars to see what happens and protect the battery hardware better.

I'm not a battery expert, but we know that Tesla are trying to reduce the costs of battery design, but still be competitive.

If the new battery pack has strategic hardware changes, this 'issue' might be either a temporary 'beta test', to see how it fairs in the wild, or a perminent restriction.

Report feedback to Tesla, let them deal with it, if you don't like it buy another car.

Plenty of ICE cars in the past have had design changes that suddenly 'throttle back' the performance in some way. Adding Catalysts, DPF's, Turbo Lag, Heat Soak, EURO emmissions, mapping restrictions... not to mention all the regular complaints about cost-cutting, components failing, and needing aftermarket parts.

Car enthusiasts love complaining. Then modifying their cars wildly out of spec, to 'make them better'... it's like an addiction.

Most car manufacturers Engine Management Systems are severely restricted from factory. Nobody bludgens them to death... they run out instead, remap their car with aftermarket software, void their Warranty and biatch when their clutch or gearbox fails

Tesla are breaking new ground, trying new things... let them get on with it.

Oops, there I go again, with an opinion

 

[PITA]

... If all the previous fast 'Winter' M3 Performance cars start failing with battery pack issues after a few years out of warranty... you all might start changing your opinion.

Careful what you wish for.

 

[PITA]

Bjorn Nyland has some detailed testing that you can see on YouTube which shows the issue. Winter temperatures have an impact on all evs but this is a specific additional issue that is model specific.

Is it this video? where he states it's -17 degrees outside.

Are you lot mad

You still want 0-60mph in 3.1 seconds, when the weather is MINUS SEVENTEEN outside. Worse still, it's still on your mind in Winter that some other car might be faster than you...

Drivers can be profiled by what type of car they drive, so 'Performance' car drivers are likely to be more aggressive. Long Range drivers to be more frugal. Seems to me like it could also be safety profiling.

1800kg car, out of control on cold roads, with black ice potential.

Sounds to me like Tesla are doing you a favour.

 

[Jason71]

... If all the previous fast 'Winter' M3 Performance cars start failing with battery pack issues after a few years out of warranty... you all might start changing your opinion.

Careful what you wish for.

If Tesla thought existing P batteries were going to fail during warrantee they would be changing the software on the existing cars as well and we will be hearing complaints from existing owners in about 2 months time.

One likely explanation for the ops problems seems to be a significant hardware change without sufficient cold weather testing. Not sure what honest actor with any knowledge of Tesla's history would dismiss that out of hand. If that is the case the question is, is it hardware or software, which again I guess we will be finding out in about 2 months because if they just needed to optimise the Software for the new set up they will almost certainly have used data from last winter and done it by now. If its hardware then I expect recent cars to be fixed leaving a bunch of lame ducks from last winter and a possible future class action.

Either way until the winter I don't see much happening that is going to move the needle on this one. Maybe WE should all chill ( see what I did there) for a few weeks on this one and check back once the weather (and the rhetoric) s have cooled down and we have some new data?

 

[CountvonC]

This made me laugh... because it wouldn't be beyond reasonable doubt

... and highlights the type of thing I was referring to in my previous post, as a possibility.

I've seen some proper stroppy driver behaviour in my time, when the fault has firmly been placed upon them. Not the car.... and they REALLY don't like that

But hey, ho... life goes on.

A mate of mine drove his P in chill for 7 months before his 12 year old grand child pointed it out to him!