Performance of P85D with Ludicrous upgrade review

[P85DEE]

I could not wait until September for another 1/4 try so I drove to Bakersfield CA 150 miles away at Auto Club Famoso Raceway. Since the nearest Supercharger was 50 miles from the strip I hauled my Tesla P85DL in my 24' enclosed trailer. That was a costly decision as I could not tie it down and it moved forward 3 feet hitting my workbench but not damaging the chrome mesh grill. However it also moved sideways and the strap tightener that holds my gas cans on top of the wheel wells rubbed a deep gauge and scratches in my rear bumper. The racing started at 8 pm and lasted till 2 am. The daytime temperature reached 107 degrees.

My first run was a new record for me as well as beating all the P90DL listed in Drag Times except the mysterious 11.152.
1/4 et 11.224 @ 119.00, 60' 1.602, 1/8 7.099 @ 98.16, 94% charge, 93 degrees. My 3rd run was 11.275 @ 119.64 at 89%. This is the highest speed reported by anyone except for the magazines. My last 7th run was 11.558 @ 117.67 at 75% at 2 am.

I could not believe that there were so many racers there about half ran No Time which meant only they got their time slips and the audience was left in the dark as the score boards only showed who won. Apparently they bet money on some races and street racers want their times to remain secret. There were a lot of fast street racers. Everyone was amazed how quick the Tesla was and it was fun using Summons to move it forward in the staging lanes.

We were told that we could camp there overnight but at 2:30 we were rudely interrupted and told we had to camp out of the facility fence. So we got 3 hours of sleep. During that period I got the bright that my friend could drive the Tesla home and his girl friend would have better air conditioning while I would have 4,900 ponds less to tow over the Grapevine and avoid any further damage to my car. We had breakfast at the Tejon Ranch Supercharger while the Tesla got back to 90%.

Sounds like quite the adventure NSX 1992. Sorry to hear of the damage, and it's one of the reasons why I haven't trailered mine as I'm very concerned about how well I'd be able to secure it.

I'm sorry to hear of the damage, but glad to hear that it wasn't any worse than it could have been.

Very, very smart move not attempting to trailer it back.

Also glad to hear that you achieved two new bests, the quarter mile time, I knew that the numbers indicated from your prior 1/8 mile times that the car had mid to low 11.2s in it, and your one 1/8 mile trap speed from awhile back , I believe that it was 96.5x mph if I recall correctly, told me that a good 1/4 mile trap speed was forthcoming too. 98.16 in the 1/8 is probably among the top as well.

When I look at your previous best 1/4 mile, I see an improvement from 11.326 to 11.224, for an improvement of .102 seconds in the quarter. An improvement in trap speed from 114.48mph to 119.00mph, for a whopping 4.52mph improvement. And the 119.00 was eclipsed by your 119.64, which would be 5.16mph greater.

Different tracks, different days, but it's numbers like those, results like those which make me know that we still have a ways to go toward entirely figuring out how these cars behave on a drag strip.

That improvement in trap speed mph, and ET for that matter, cannot be explained by DA, and is hard to explain by SOC, and unless you had an extremely strong tail wind, then I don't think that accounts for it either.

But rather I think that a good bit of what we are seeing here, is in your learning the car. What works to get the best times, and what doesn't.

Back when the cars were running 11.4, 11.5s and seemingly struggling to do that, we didn't see results like this, certainly not trap speeds like this, and there is no evidence that any additional power has been added.

At any rate, however you did it, congrats on the new bests.

In your case, it looks like Tesla did indeed, "under promise and over deliver", as they promised you 2 tenths improvement with Ludicrous, but you've gone from 11.546 @115.390 before Ludicrous, to 11.224 @ 119.00, for a .322 seconds improvement in quarter mile ET, and a 3.61 mph increase in quarter mile trap speed after Ludicrous. Actually 4.25mph if you count if from 115.390 to a new all time best of 119.64.

You probably can't beat that these days for 5 grand and still keep your warranty.

I guess I'm going to have to eat my words that the P90DL can't come anywhere near close to 121 MPH. If that was a vbox instead of the speed needed to get through the last 66 feet, that would be in the mid 120 MPH range.

I think this also puts to rest there being any sort of performance advantage of the P90DL over the P85DL given this result and that we already know the maximum KW output is the same.

Yes, I'm reasonably sure that had the 119.64mph best trap speed that he managed as measured by the timing lights over the last 66ft of the pass, been measured as a 1320ft Vmax on a Racelogic Vbox that it would have read in the 120 mph range

It's also interesting and impressive that he has made it to the top of the heap in terms of trap speed, and near the top in terms of ET in such a short period.

 

[sorka]

I just started using a cane yesterday so I am still wobbly but I could not wait till September. I will be 76 years old in 4 days.

Holy smokes. Well I'm guessing that you have quite a bit of perspective when you think back to what cars were like when you first started driving.

I'm also guessing that you have 19" wheels. I've already determined by swapping my stock 19s and stock 21s back and fourth that the 21s are slower using my vbox. They're almost 10 lbs heavier per wheel and the fact that it's rotating makes it a double whammy as far as weight penalty. I'm going to guess you have the 19s because I don't think it's possible to do that in a P85DL or P90DL with 21" wheels.

 

[NSX1992]

Yes I have stock chromed 19" wheels. When I ran against an identical P85DL in the 1/8 mile who had 21" wheels my times were about .08 sec faster but I had 2% more charge and I used slip start.

Using the same track Fontana for the 1/4 my time was decreased .2 with Ludicrous. But some people complain that it has a slight uphill near the end and they claim better times at Bakersfield (Famoso) so I made the special effort to race there. I was surprised that my first run at 94% was the best one because I had stated that the best runs are between 87% and 92%.

 

[P85DEE]

Holy smokes. Well I'm guessing that you have quite a bit of perspective when you think back to what cars were like when you first started driving.

I'm also guessing that you have 19" wheels. I've already determined by swapping my stock 19s and stock 21s back and fourth that the 21s are slower using my vbox. They're almost 10 lbs heavier per wheel and the fact that it's rotating makes it a double whammy as far as weight penalty. I'm going to guess you have the 19s because I don't think it's possible to do that in a P85DL or P90DL with 21" wheels.

Yes I have stock chromed 19" wheels. When I ran against an identical P85DL in the 1/8 mile who had 21" wheels my times were about .08 sec faster but I had 2% more charge and I used slip start.

Using the same track Fontana for the 1/4 my time was decreased .2 with Ludicrous. But some people complain that it has a slight uphill near the end and they claim better times at Bakersfield (Famoso) so I made the special effort to race there. I was surprised that my first run at 94% was the best one because I had stated that the best runs are between 87% and 92%.

Were you also running on max battery?

 

[NSX1992]

Yes

 

[NSX1992]

Holy smokes. Well I'm guessing that you have quite a bit of perspective when you think back to what cars were like when you first started driving.

I'm also guessing that you have 19" wheels. I've already determined by swapping my stock 19s and stock 21s back and fourth that the 21s are slower using my vbox. They're almost 10 lbs heavier per wheel and the fact that it's rotating makes it a double whammy as far as weight penalty. I'm going to guess you have the 19s because I don't think it's possible to do that in a P85DL or P90DL with 21" wheels.

Yes I dragged my 1953 Ford with the flathead and later with a Chevy 283 with dual quad carbs that I installed myself. In 1970 I built a street legal fiberglass kit car Astra J5 that took 4 years. I started with a 409, then 427 and finally a 454 bored out to 468. It weighed 2450 pounds and did the quarter in 10.75 @ 132. Trying to be king of the hill at the Glamis sand dunes I built a 108" wheelbase sandrail with an all aluminum 1976 Volvo V6. After 3 more stretches to a 152" wheelbase and many modifications to the engine and drivetrain did 104 mph in 3.20 sec in the 100 yard drags with 30 pounds of boost running methanol. The sandrail and engine were all polished aluminum with chrome and no paint anywhere and won many awards at car shows including best off road vehicle and engine at Long Beach. It weighed 1015 pounds at an estimated 600 HP. I still take the sandrail to the dunes but it now has basically a stock Volvo-Renault-Peugeot-DeLorean (all the same) engine.

 

[P85DEE]

Yes I dragged my 1953 Ford with the flathead and later with a Chevy 283 with dual quad carbs that I installed myself. In 1970 I built a street legal fiberglass kit car Astra J5 that took 4 years. I started with a 409, then 427 and finally a 454 bored out to 468. It weighed 2450 pounds and did the quarter in 10.75 @ 132. Trying to be king of the hill at the Glamis sand dunes I built a 108" wheelbase sandrail with an all aluminum 1976 Volvo V6. After 3 more stretches to a 152" wheelbase and many modifications to the engine and drivetrain did 104 mph in 3.20 sec in the 100 yard drags with 30 pounds of boost running methanol. The sandrail and engine were all polished aluminum with chrome and no paint anywhere and won many awards at car shows including best off road vehicle and engine at Long Beach. It weighed 1015 pounds at an estimated 600 HP. I still take the sandrail to the dunes but it now has basically a stock Volvo-Renault-Peugeot-DeLorean (all the same) engine.

Sounds like you've led a full life.

Out of curiosity, what was gasoline going for back then? 30 cents a gallon?

Wow, 1953? You're going back to the Eisenhower administration if I'm not mistaken.

But 76 yrs old, still going strong, prosthetic hip not slowing you down one bit, kudos to you sir.

 

[NSX1992]

I remember 29.9 cents but that was not 1953. I started racing at age 18 in a 1953 Ford. Later had a 1959 Buick Invicta with the gorgeous fins. In 1966 bought a 1962 Thunderbird and sold it because it had a leeking freeze plug under the motor mount that I could not replace. 15 years ago I bought another 1962 Thunderbird that was restored which I will keep forever. All my cars are red. My 1953 Ford had "Heartbeat" painted on the fenders and my Tesla is also named "heartbeat".

 

[P85DEE]

We have 2 p85d's, one is a December 2014 build and one is a May 2015 build. Both have been upgraded to ludicrous by the west palm beach service center. The December p85dl makes ~430kw and the May p85dl makes ~455kw. All number taken from powertools over many runs at all soc's over the past month. The May 2015 p85dl is noticeably faster at most soc.
Does this seem normal to you guys? What peak kW are you guys making?

Interesting.

Could you have gone into that "performance mode" and accidentally left it in 85D, or something less than "Max", and emulating a slower car?

 

[sorka]

An 85D maxes out at 376 KW.

 

[bhzmark]

Probably helpful:
- charge between 87% and 92%. Above 92% reported slower

Updating the launch checklist to reflect new info. Would like further validation/replication on the latter categories to delete or move to definitely helpful.

Definitely helpful:
- charge as close to 100% as possible -- power decreases consistently with decreasing SOC Max Power vs State of Charge and Temp
- Max power battery heat
- stomp pedal (with a wind up) instead of launch mode
- shallow stage (give more running room before tripping the start clock)

Probably helpful:
- creep mode off
- slip start mode on (if tire and track conditions allow? can you spin too much in some cases?)
- use (dont use?) Hill hold
- take out the Chademo adopter and all other junk in the trunk/frunk
- fewer heavy options (no pano, UHFS, power hatch, SAS, dual charger, 3rd row, etc.)
- lighter wheels and tires (19 instead of 21, forged instead of cast)

Who knows? (no data to back up some of these speculations)
- use (don't use?) hill hold during wind up stomp
- adjust SAS (make it lower?)
- turn off all other elec load in car esp Ac/heater (even DRLs etc.? )
- lower (raise?) tire pressure
- fold side mirrors

 

[msnow]

Updating the launch checklist to reflect new info. Would like further validation/replication on the latter categories to delete or move to definitely helpful.

Definitely helpful:
- charge as close to 100% as possible -- power decreases consistently with decreasing SOC Max Power vs State of Charge and Temp
- Max power battery heat
- stomp pedal (with a wind up) instead of launch mode
- shallow stage (give more running room before tripping the start clock)

Probably helpful:
- creep mode off
- slip start mode on (if tire and track conditions allow? can you spin too much in some cases?)
- use (dont use?) Hill hold
- take out the Chademo adopter and all other junk in the trunk/frunk
- fewer heavy options (no pano, UHFS, power hatch, SAS, dual charger, 3rd row, etc.)
- lighter wheels and tires (19 instead of 21, forged instead of cast)

Who knows? (no data to back up some of these speculations)
- use (don't use?) hill hold during wind up stomp
- adjust SAS (make it lower?)
- turn off all other elec load in car esp Ac/heater (even DRLs etc.? )
- lower (raise?) tire pressure
- fold side mirrors

Range Mode on or off or does it not matter?

 

[bhzmark]

Addl data points on a P85DL:

ET=11.318/117.15mph
60ft=1.612
330=4.607
660=7.154/94.95
1000=9.398

at about 95% SOC max battery on; used launch mode
weight from: Pano, dual charger, UHF, 19"cyclones

Powertools had a bad connection so I don't have any logs

a slip start launch 5 minutes later was a close second best time:

ET=11.362/116.57mph
60ft=1.620
330=4.621
660=7.180/94.48
1000=9.434

the track had no option to drive around the water and I definitely felt the traction control pause the car right off the line, and heard the tires spin quite a bit when using slip start. With a better track prep the time should come down a bit.

 

[bhzmark]

The December p85dl makes ~430kw and the May p85dl makes ~455kw. All number taken from powertools over many runs at all soc's over the past month. The May 2015 p85dl is noticeably faster at most soc.
Does this seem normal to you guys? What peak kW are you guys making?

My Dec 2014 build got to 456kw multiple times.

I couldn't get logs from the recent 1/4 runs at 11.318, but the next morning at 100% SOC and max batt ready I logged 456kw max power at 40mph and stayed above 450 until 62 and stayed above 440 through 92. These stats were replicated twice -- exactly the same. And they are convenient for 0-60mph and 0-100kph tests that it holds 450kw until 62 mph.

 

[P85DEE]

Nice passes bhzmark. Excellent work getting it down the quarter mile.

Had that water not been down, no doubt you would have gotten 60 ft times in the 1.58 range and those would have been 11.2s.

But no doubt 11.3 will win a lot of races.

 

[Denarius]

We have 2 p85d's, one is a December 2014 build and one is a May 2015 build. Both have been upgraded to ludicrous by the west palm beach service center. The December p85dl makes ~430kw and the May p85dl makes ~455kw. All number taken from powertools over many runs at all soc's over the past month. The May 2015 p85dl is noticeably faster at most soc.
Does this seem normal to you guys? What peak kW are you guys making?

My Dec 2014 P85DL hit 448 at 90% charge and max battery power ready.

 

[NDR]

Nice. I'll have to get a can bus logger to see what's going on with mine. My rear motor has also started milling at 15-35mph. Maybe that has something to do with it.

 

[bhzmark]

Any info on different ludi upgrades resulting different performance? I notice that I have the 1074980-00-E battery part number. Is there a newer ludi upgrade or different part numbers? The scheduling thread has a few comments but though the performance of ludi upgrades, and any variability thereof should be discussed here.

 

[bhzmark]

We have 2 p85d's, one is a December 2014 build and one is a May 2015 build. Both have been upgraded to ludicrous by the west palm beach service center. The December p85dl makes ~430kw and the May p85dl makes ~455kw. All number taken from powertools over many runs at all soc's over the past month. The May 2015 p85dl is noticeably faster at most soc.
Does this seem normal to you guys? What peak kW are you guys making?

what are the battery part numbers?

 

[MarcG]

Any info on different ludi upgrades resulting different performance? I notice that I have the 1074980-00-E battery part number. Is there a newer ludi upgrade or different part numbers? The scheduling thread has a few comments but though the performance of ludi upgrades, and any variability thereof should be discussed here.

Oh I totally forgot about this thread! I was posting mainly in the Scheduling one and the other about power vs SoC.

Yeah I got the same Ludi battery part number and so did others who posted about their upgrades, so I don't think we'll see a difference in performance across P85DL that aren't related to SoC, tires, possibly temp, etc.

BTW while I was getting mine upgraded I had a recent model 2016 P90DL, and I can tell you with certainty it had noticeably more power than my P85DL.

Still worth the upgrade though, especially if I decide to upgrade to a higher capacity pack in the future (where the P100D?!) which will retain the Ludi enablement, as I mentioned in the past.