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Performance of P85D with Ludicrous upgrade review

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Do you know what the SOC was on the 60-90 passes with Ludicrous max battery? My P85D 60-90 runs with max battery at 90% are:

3.49
3.52
3.56

I'm hoping that your best run of 3.347 was at lower than 90% and that the 3.7 run was way below 90%...hopefully. It certainly appear that max battery has much larger effect post L than before. if I charge to 90% I'll get something like 409KW without max battery vs 415KW with max battery.

On your run where you got 451KW, do you have the pbox file for that run and does it include one of the 60-90 runs?

Both the runs you mention were my first pass of the morning. The charge at the end of the pass was 86% in both cases. It was probably 88% at the beginning of the pass.

Yes, the max battery power had a bigger effect than I would have liked.

Yes, I have all the files, both the pbox and powertools. The 451 kW was on the first ludicrous max battery power run, the one where I got 3.347 on the 60-90. It is also the one for which the quarter mile is plotted and is on the power bs time plot. Is there more information you want?

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Honest officer, it was in the name of science!
My plan was to say: Honest officer, I was just trying to measure the 0-60 time and it got away from me. I won't let it happen again.
 
This is by far the best performance write-up ever on this Forum. Thank you, Thimel for the hard work and attention to detail that you put forth.

It's now perfectly clear how well the P85D Ludicrous Upgrade currently performs in the wild. To me it shows that Tesla delivered what they promised with that Upgrade. The next Tesla promise that now moves to the forefront is the 10.9 sec 1/4 mile, which was unambiguously specified for the P90DL.
 
Both the runs you mention were my first pass of the morning. The charge at the end of the pass was 86% in both cases. It was probably 88% at the beginning of the pass.

Yes, the max battery power had a bigger effect than I would have liked.

Yes, I have all the files, both the pbox and powertools. The 451 kW was on the first ludicrous max battery power run, the one where I got 3.347 on the 60-90. It is also the one for which the quarter mile is plotted and is on the power bs time plot. Is there more information you want?

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My plan was to say: Honest officer, I was just trying to measure the 0-60 time and it got away from me. I won't let it happen again.

Can you pull the 50-80 to 60-85 times of that run so we can compare it to the times in yo mamma's and marcG's video?

The 60-90 of you're 451KW max run is only .15 seconds better than my 415KW max battery run on my P85D. I think it should have been faster than that. The other two time ranges compared to yo mama's when they did the video with his SOC only at 68% will be telling.

Also, was the drag times 0-100 really 1/3 of a seconds faster than the upgraded P85D?
 
Outstanding write-up, nicely laid out and documented, thanks!

Now for discussion - my P85D is great off the line. Outstanding, more like it. I want more passing power. And I don't want to have to set max battery to GET that passing power. Realistically, how often are you going to burn up energy using max battery? Drag strip, impressing friends, etc? Absolutely. Day-to-day? Probably not. Now of course, if the battery is warmed up and you just happen to be in the sweet spot for SOC and you need that passing power, you're set.

But looking at the initial chart here, I see 60-90 on P85D at 3.85. On the P85D, I see 60-90 without max battery at 3.656. I'm not sure .2 seconds is worth $5k to me. I'd really have to do some serious "testing" in the 60-90 range.
 
Outstanding write-up, nicely laid out and documented, thanks!.

Ditto!

But looking at the initial chart here, I see 60-90 on P85D at 3.85. On the P85D, I see 60-90 without max battery at 3.656. I'm not sure .2 seconds is worth $5k to me. I'd really have to do some serious "testing" in the 60-90 range.

Yes, yo mamma's numbers, from MarcG, shaved .4-.5seconds off the roll-on, highway passing, time (2.9-3.0 vs. 3.4-3.5, slightly different time brackets). Here, it is back down to .1-.2 (which jives with the smaller quarter mile gain). So, these results affirm 0-60, but seem to conflict on passing?

I wish heat (Max Power) didn't have the impact it seems to.
 
Also remember that the advice I got from the techs is that max power has the greatest impact AFTER 60mph. So if your daily commute is just on city streets it may (should) not matter all that much.

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Question: do we know/care about confirming that the upgrade officially delivers 1500 amps to the drive train?
 
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i'm assuming the car weighs 5000 lbs.

Using the 0-60 w/o rollout times, Pre-L your output power was 308-313hp for 509 input hp and the torque was 230 ft-lbs.

With L your output power was 334 & 345 hp from an input power of 604 hp (451 kW), the torque was 252 ft-lbs.

Based upon the 0-40 mph, the torque at the wheels pre-L peaked at 298 ft-lbs drawing (1187?) Amps at rated motor voltage.

With L the peak torque is 336 ft-lbs at 37.7 mph drawing (1409?) Amps at motor rated voltage.

Definitely more current and more torque with L, need more data to have confidence in the current numbers, hence the (?).

How are you computing that?
 
Outstanding write-up, nicely laid out and documented, thanks!

Now for discussion - my P85D is great off the line. Outstanding, more like it. I want more passing power. And I don't want to have to set max battery to GET that passing power. Realistically, how often are you going to burn up energy using max battery? Drag strip, impressing friends, etc? Absolutely. Day-to-day? Probably not. Now of course, if the battery is warmed up and you just happen to be in the sweet spot for SOC and you need that passing power, you're set.

But looking at the initial chart here, I see 60-90 on P85D at 3.85. On the P85D, I see 60-90 without max battery at 3.656. I'm not sure .2 seconds is worth $5k to me. I'd really have to do some serious "testing" in the 60-90 range.

I think that will happen with actual roll on type comparisons and side by side, a P85D vs P85D with Ludicrous.

Either way though, the car is now making what, 605hp up from about 550 using the method of converting kilowatts to horsepower, and we're seeing the degree of difference which you point out in italics above.

Taking that into consideration, I'm wondering how much improvement over that another 86 horsepower calculated the same way, would make vs the results we see now in your italics.

Would it it allow one to compete with 700hp ICE vehicles or Audi RS7s from a highway roll as some have indicated that they are looking for.

I doubt it. But because I don't think that is going to happen, just me, I'm satisfied with the improvement over Insane from 60-90.
 
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Thimel sent me over his vbn pbox file so I could compare my best max battery P85D 415KW acceleration ranges with his 451KW max battery run:


50-7070-9050-8060-8560-900-600-900-100600 feet1/8 mile1/4 mile
sorka P85D1.812.613.002.873.613.467.07-7.28--
thimel P85DL1.662.432.772.703.353.076.418.026.957.3811.58
The 2.61 I got from 70-90 is by far the best I've gotten. My previous best was 3.00 without max battery.
The 2.43 he got for 70-90 matches the E60 M5 which is 4300 lbs and 500 hp which has a virtually identical power to weight ratio once you knock off a few percent from 611 hp at the battery to get shaft power.

The improvement varies from 0.15 to 0.23 seconds.
The 0-60 runs are without 1 ft rollout.

But notice the 0-90 run. There's well over 6 tenths of a second improvement so it isn't just 0-60. It keeps on accumulating at least up to 90 MPH.

So what the heck? In the 1/4 mile this should be better than 2 tenths improvement. Now my run only went up to 93 MPH. But Thimel's same run up to 1/4 mile only hits 11.58. If it had kept the same pace that it did up to 90 MPH, this would have been an 11 second 1/4 mile had there been no further improvement beyond that.

So Lola, maybe there is a burst thing going on here but one that doesn't show up until a much longer full power burst.

Edit: just realize that time to speed and time to distance aren't going to have the same difference. I didn't quite make it to 1/8 mile before letting up but I did to 600 feet, so I crunched both files time to 600 feet. Mine exited at 7.28 sec @ 91.35 MPH while thimel's exited at 6.95 sec @ 93.95 MPH. Still that's over a 300 ms difference at not quite the 1/8 mile (660 feet), so it still seems like there's a burst that tapers off. Bodes well for those that really want the upgrade for highway passing power rather than the track.
 
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[*]The 0-60 time I got of 2.89 is also nearly identical to that Pete90D got of 2.901 s. I’m not sure of his state of charge or whether max batt power was on. http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/52082-Happy-Birthday-to-me-it-s-a-P90D/page20

Great job and very informative.

I actually got it down to 2.81s a while back and updated the chart
0-60/30-50/50-70 comparitive times for 70D/85D/P85D

I was somewhere between 85-90% and my battery was warm enough max battery did nothing. You can hit optimal temp just driving around. Max battery only helps if you can't do that or if you can do a 0-60 out of your garage :)
 
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Thimel sent me over his vbn pbox file so I could compare my best max battery P85D 415KW acceleration ranges with his 451KW max battery run:


50-7070-9050-8060-8560-900-600-900-1001/4 mile
sorka P85D1.812.613.002.873.613.467.07-
thimel P85DL1.662.432.772.703.353.076.418.0211.58
The 2.61 I got from 70-90 is by far the best I've gotten. My previous best was 3.00 without max battery.
The 2.43 he got for 70-90 matches the E60 M5 which is 4300 lbs and 500 hp which has a virtually identical power to weight ratio once you knock off a few percent from 611 hp at the battery to get shaft power.

The improvement varies from 0.15 to 0.23 seconds.
The 0-60 runs are without 1 ft rollout.

But notice the 0-90 run. There's well over 6 tenths of a second improvement so it isn't just 0-60. It keeps on accumulating at least up to 90 MPH.

So what the heck? In the 1/4 mile this should be better than 2 tenths improvement. Now my run only went up to 93 MPH. But Thimel's same run up to 1/4 mile only hits 11.58. If it had kept the same pace that it did up to 90 MPH, this would have been an 11 second 1/4 mile had there been no further improvement beyond that.

So Lola, maybe there is a burst thing going on here but one that doesn't show up until a much longer full power burst.

I tend to agree.

Or more accurately, I think that this car is going to run in that 11.3 -11.4 range. Possibly better.

First a quick summary for those who don’t want all the details

...
Now, all the nitty gritty for the rest of you.


Before Lud run 1Before Lud run 2After Lud run 1After Lud run 2After Lud run 1After Lud run 2

Max Batt offMax Batt ?Max Batt onMax Batt onMax Batt offMax Batt off
0-10 1 ft rollout0.200.190.200.200.200.21
0-20 1 ft rollout0.620.630.630.620.630.65
0-30 1 ft rollout1.081.081.071.061.061.09
0-40 1 ft rollout1.641.641.551.561.571.60
0-50 1 ft rollout2.352.342.152.192.232.23
0-60 1 ft rollout3.2133.2002.8932.9703.0593.044
0-70 1 ft rollout4.304.263.743.934.064.02
0-80 1 ft rollout5.585.534.925.085.295.22
0-90 1 ft rollout7.147.056.246.476.796.70
0-100 1 ft rollout9.0208.8737.8438.1628.6498.494
0-60 no rollout3.5433.4853.1683.2713.3023.376
0-100 no rollout9.3499.1598.1188.4628.8928.825
30-60 starting 02.1332.1201.8231.9101.9971.955
60-90 starting 03.923.853.3473.503.7313.656
1/8 mile time7.4837.4687.2117.2817.3637.350
1/8 mile trap speed90.56190.95994.80693.54191.88892.448
¼ mile time------11.82011.40611.53211.69411.654
¼ mile trap speed------112.176116.013114.541112.309113.150
30-60 starting 292.1752.1661.9021.967------------
60-90 starting 59------3.813.363.55------------
..

An interesting thing happens in his chart above Sorka.

Take a look at the third column "After Ludicrous Run 1 Maximum Battery"

The 1/8 mile time is 7.211 seconds, and the trap speed is 94.806, Quarter Mile Time 11.406. Trap speed 116.013 mph

Now take a look here at the Dragtimes site. Fast Tesla Model-Ss 1/4 Mile 0-60 Drag Racing - DragTimes.com

The top time in the P90D. 11.384...115.89......7.193 ......94.330.

7.211-7.193= .018 seconds. The difference in the 1/8 mile times between the P85D using the box vs the P90D on the drag strip

11.406-11.384= .022 seconds. The difference between the 1/4 mile time of the P85D via the box vs the P90D on the drag strip.

However the 1/8 mile trap speed difference is 94.806 mph vs 94.330 mph for a difference of .476 mph for the P85D.

1/4 mile trap speed difference is 116.013 mph - 115.890 mph is .123mph

I'm thinking that the P85D as it stands right now, will be in that 11.3-11.4 range, same as the current P90D.

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An interesting thing happens in his chart above Sorka.

Take a look at the third column "After Ludicrous Run 1 Maximum Battery"

The 1/8 mile time is 7.211 seconds, and the trap speed is 94.806, Quarter Mile Time 11.406. Trap speed 116.013 mph

Now take a look here at the Ragtimes site. Fast Tesla Model-Ss 1/4 Mile 0-60 Drag Racing - DragTimes.com

The top time in the P90. 11.384...115.89......7.193 ......94.330.

7.211-7.193= .018 seconds. The difference in the 1/8 mile times between the P85D using the box vs the P90D on the drag strip

11.406-11.384= .022 seconds. The difference between the 1/4 mile time of the P85D via the box vs the P90D on the drag strip.

However the 1/8 mile trap speed difference is 94.806 mph vs 94.330 mph for a difference of .476 mph.

1/4 mile trap speed difference is 116.013 mph - 115.890 mph is .123mph

I'm thinking that the P85D as it stands right now, will be in that 11.3-11.4 range, same as the current P90D.

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I tend to agree.

Or more accurately, I think that this car is going to run in that 11.3 -11.4 range. Possibly better.


AGREED! Stoked on life.
 
I tend to agree.

Or more accurately, I think that this car is going to run in that 11.3 -11.4 range. Possibly better.



An interesting thing happens in his chart above Sorka.

Take a look at the third column "After Ludicrous Run 1 Maximum Battery"

The 1/8 mile time is 7.211 seconds, and the trap speed is 94.806, Quarter Mile Time 11.406. Trap speed 116.013 mph

Now take a look here at the Ragtimes site. Fast Tesla Model-Ss 1/4 Mile 0-60 Drag Racing - DragTimes.com

The top time in the P90. 11.384...115.89......7.193 ......94.330.

7.211-7.193= .018 seconds. The difference in the 1/8 mile times between the P85D using the box vs the P90D on the drag strip

11.406-11.384= .022 seconds. The difference between the 1/4 mile time of the P85D via the box vs the P90D on the drag strip.

However the 1/8 mile trap speed difference is 94.806 mph vs 94.330 mph for a difference of .476 mph for the P85D.

1/4 mile trap speed difference is 116.013 mph - 115.890 mph is .123mph

I'm thinking that the P85D as it stands right now, will be in that 11.3-11.4 range, same as the current P90D.

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You were responding as I was updating my table with a 600 foot comparison(I don't have quite the 1/8th on my max battery 415KW run) :) See the column I added for the 600 foot distance.

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Odd. Pbox tools reports the first 1/8 mile run as 7.38 Secs @ 96.26 MPH but vboxverify.com reports the first 1/8 mile of that run as 7.211 Secs @ 94.806 MPH.

Even stranger, if I manually verify the result myself in pbox tools without letting it do the calculation, it comes out to 7.48 @ 96.25.

And vboxverify.com says the 1/4 mile is 11.406 @ 116.013.

The trap speed being averaged over the last 60 feet explains the difference in trap speed, but not trap time.
 
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You were responding as I was updating my table with a 600 foot comparison(I don't have quite the 1/8th on my max battery 415KW run) :) See the column I added for the 600 foot distance.

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Odd. Pbox tools reports the first 1/8 mile run as 7.38 Secs @ 96.26 MPH but vboxverify.com reports the first 1/8 mile of that run as 7.211 Secs @ 94.806 MPH.

Even stranger, if I manually verify the result myself in pbox tools without letting it do the calculation, it comes out to 7.48 @ 96.25.

And vboxverify.com says the 1/4 mile is 11.406 @ 116.013.

The trap speed being averaged over the last 60 feet explains the difference in trap speed, but not trap time.

I also took a look at the rest of the splits in his illustration "Test Description 1/4 mile", with Ludicrous upgrade and max battery.

P85D box time: 60ft time 1.671sec.....330ft time 4.640sec......1000ft time 9.470sec.........quarter mile time 11.406secs

P90D track time: 60ft time 1.627sec.....330ft time 4.626sec......1000ft time 9.449sec.........quarter mile time 11.384secs
2015 Tesla Model S P90D Ludicrous Timeslip Scan - DragTimes.com

Both sets of numbers are extremely close. The .044 second difference in 60ft times and the .022 second difference in quarter mile time is interesting.