Performance Plus (P85+) vs. Performance (P85) Test Drive and Review

[dennis]

@dennis - Which 20% is missing from the retrofit?

The retrofit does not include the revised dampers and the bigger sway bars. According to the product manager, the parts and labor costs would have made the price of including those in the retrofit impractical (my guess is north of $20K).

Since I haven't driven a retrofit P85 and haven't seen a post from someone who has I don't know what capability is given up by not having those parts. Is it handling subtleties or some major difference in dynamic response under hard acceleration or quick lane changes? Until demo cars are available we won't know,

 

[brianman]

According to the product manager, the parts and labor costs would have made the price of including those in the retrofit impractical (my guess is north of $20K).

Just for the sake of completeness and I realize I'm asking you to speculate but...

Do you think Tesla could be convinced to do a full retrofit if someone was interested? A U.S. Signature with a "full" retrofit would be a bit of a unicorn in the collector market.

 

[fiksegts]

need to compare with the same tires and wheels, 21", huge difference....

 

[Luder94]

Wow....great read and a BIG 'Thank You!' for the comparison. I hesitated adding the $10k upgrade package without driving the P85+; the car will be a daily driver for my wife, with me enjoying it on the weekends. I took the plunge as a "eff it, just do it". I figured, if I didn't get the P+ package, I wouldn't upgrade to the 21" wheels to save a total of $10k (actually, save $10,725 if I include tax). I'd swap out the 19" wheels for something more unique and aftermarket than the Tesla 21" wheels and wouldn't miss the P+ having not owned or driven it before.

I added the P+ package and am really happy that I did after reading your review. Your next tank of gas for the Model S is on me!

 

[Six]

need to compare with the same tires and wheels, 21", huge difference....

I agree that an identical comparison would be best, but the Tesla Store did not give me the option to reconfigure their test drive car :biggrin:

But in this thread there are links to two owners who reviewed the P85+ vs. P85 with 21" Continental tires. Their reviews and conclusions were very similar to mine. Only a very few Model S P85s were delivered with Michelin Pilots (when Tesla had supply issues) and we had a post from an owner noting the Michelin tires gave better performance. So for now the collection of these reviews is probably the best comparison available.

And the estimate from the Tesla Product Manager on where the improved performance comes from is probably the best guideline we have (excerpted below):

a product manager at Tesla HQ [spoke] about the contributors to the improved handling of the P85+. Here is his take:

40% - New control arms and links with revised bushings
40% - PS2's including wider rear tires and wheels
20% - Revised dampers and sway bars

 

[lolachampcar]

I was one of the Pilot deliveries and I just put my car on a truck for CA on Sunday (to make room for the P85+).

 

[dsm363]

Are the PS2s worth almost double the price if you are not taking the car to the track? The acceleration and cornering on the Contis is nice but you can tell the tires don't have the best traction under hard acceleration.

 

[lolachampcar]

I suspect you can get almost all the way to a Pilot with a Nitto or Hankook (ventus) with a fraction of the cost. Continentals are more of an MB tire.

 

[Jason S]

Are the PS2s worth almost double the price if you are not taking the car to the track? The acceleration and cornering on the Contis is nice but you can tell the tires don't have the best traction under hard acceleration.

I think of the extra performance as emergency handling insurance -- better braking and cornering should help ever so slightly with emergency handling. (Better training helps more, imho, but every little bit counts)

Don't know yet, will in a couple months. Here's the reason: the local Costco doesn't sell any 21" Tesla sized tires (P85) other than the PS2s. Since they warranty them for 20k miles, I figure we'll just get the PS2s the next time they are on sales (should be August). The warranty will keep the ongoing cost in same range as non-warrantied Contis.

Mostly because it is just ridiculously convenient to get tires done at same place we'll shop a couple times a month plus the % cash back from the upgraded membership.

The ratios for impact on performance seem about right. The tires alone may account for 20%, even on the stock P85 widths.

 

[brianman]

Just a random observation...

Now that she's on the forum, I'd be curious to hear Leilani's take if we can manage to get a side-by-side drive for her on the P85 and P85+ with the same suspension and similar tires.

 

[Six]

I suspect you can get almost all the way to a Pilot with a Nitto or Hankook (ventus) with a fraction of the cost. Continentals are more of an MB tire.

For P85+ owners 265/35R21 tires are very limited. According to tire rack.com only continental, Michelin, and Pirelli make them. I checked Nitto and Hankook sites and got same info

 

[justaddsun]

Has anyone checked a real 0-60 time in the P+? Don't know about the whole roll out start or not, but I'd love to see this thing dip below 4 seconds flat.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 4 Beta

 

[Denarius]

+11

 

[Calisun]

I picked up my P85+ this morning and love it. The like the others have mentioned, the handing is excellent. The ride is great, even on broken roads while still providing firm turn response. The car compares well to my old C63 with a very refined ride.

 

[lolachampcar]

Calisun,
You're killing me here. I feel like I am back waiting for my car the first time around. I did get a ViN yesterday so it should not be long.
Thanks for the direct comparison with your previous C63 driver. It is a good reference point.

 

[Calisun]

Calisun,
You're killing me here. I feel like I am back waiting for my car the first time around. I did get a ViN yesterday so it should not be long.
Thanks for the direct comparison with your previous C63 driver. It is a good reference point.

You are welcome and I'll provide as much torture (feedback) as I can till yours arrives. I haven't had a chance to really push the car yet beyond highway driving but this weekend I should be able to take it up into the hills then down to RT1 for a sprited drive. The P85+ is still a big car but it does seem to hide it's mass well.

 

[Colasec]

fwiw, the new store that opened last Friday in Brea (SoCal) has three test drive vehicles that I believe are all P85+ models. So they're available for demo in some places.

 

[Tee]

Had my P85+ for over a month now. The car does feel like it just sticks to the road. It is a fantastic car.

@Calisun - Good to hear there is another P85+ in the Bay Area. I was starting to feel a bit lonely. Mine is the Green with grey wheels. I'll keep an eye out for you.

 

[BornToFly]

- - - Updated - - -

Took delivery of my P85+ today. At first, the tramlining on the highway was bothering me and made me think the car felt floaty. The car is heavy, but once I got on black top, I did some aggressive lane changes and it feels pretty tight, without too much body roll. The nice owner that let me test drive his P85 before I ordered mine, was very excited and stopped by my house a short time later. We did a very short drive with both cars, and switched back and forth (I only had 27 miles of range). With aggressive lane changes and swerving the P85+ is definitely tighter and has less body roll. To me, that is worth the price tag. The tires are noticeably wider in the rear wheel wells. The extra 2cm of the tire width seems to almost all be to the outside, filling with wheel well. FYI, he had 21inch Continentals, which have been rotated and are pretty worn after 4,000 miles.

- - - Updated - - -

P vs P+ tires in wheel well. A closer look.

- - - Updated - - -

P85 camber doesn't look as bad here.

 

[goneskiian]

Excellent! Glad to hear you two got together so quickly for a comparison run! Also happy to hear the + is living up to your high expectations.

Thanks for sharing your impressions!

Cheers!