Performance/Sport option

[AnOutsider]

I'd wish you'd stop speaking so absolutely and dismissively on things -- it's why we butt heads so much. It's not an absurdity, it's an opinion. We also butted heads when I said I'd like to see faster than 5.6s... Apparently I wasn't alone. Like I said, regardless of the vehicle, once you're used to certain performance, there is some disappointment when you hear you'll get less.

Does that always translate into disappointment in the actual driving experience? Not always. Like I said, you have to take I'm the whole package and adjust to the vehicle. I'm still happy to see the sport versions numbers though. I like it on paper, and judging from the test rides in the non-sport betas, I'll love it in execution.

YMMV.


Ps... If you insist on dwelling on price... The GTR, as mentioned, will have better performance and likely still come at or below the sport s in price. So there's your comparison.

 

[ckessel]

It's why we butted heads when I said I'd like to see faster than 5.6s...

No, we butted heads because you said 5.6 is SLOW. We butt heads because you insist continually on unfavorable comparisons with cars completely out of the same class. Like the GTR, that's not even remotely the same kind of car as the Model S.

I'm simply trying to be reasonable by comparing the Model S specs to cars it's actually meant to be comparable to. You're the one with absolutes ("price doesn't matter", "5.6s is slow", etc). You could be horribly disappointed in the Model S performance, which is fine if that's your opinion, but that doesn't make it a reasonable opinion.

 

[AnOutsider]

No, we butted heads because you said 5.6 is SLOW. We butt heads because you insist continually on unfavorable comparisons with cars completely out of the same class. Like the GTR, that's not even remotely the same kind of car as the Model S.

I'm simply trying to be reasonable by comparing the Model S specs to cars it's actually meant to be comparable to. You're the one with absolutes ("price doesn't matter", "5.6s is slow", etc). You could be horribly disappointed in the Model S performance, which is fine if that's your opinion, but that doesn't make it a reasonable opinion.

Actually, I did not say it was slow. I countered your statement:

The regular 5.6/5.7 speed IS a sport car. Hell, it outdoes my RX8 and many "sports" cars. This poll is really asking about a "super sport" mode .

with:

I beg to differ (and have in other threads). 5.6 is nice, but not unheard of (again, our S5 is rated at 4.9s). If they could hit 5s I think that would be good for a sedan this size (especially as the A7 does 5.4s)

Whole convo here

But alright man, it's not worth turning an otherwise pleasant forum experience sour. Perhaps we just agree to disagree and ignore each others posts vs arguing.

 

[AnOutsider]

Going back to that thread, I saw my original comment:

So I still say if Tesla can meet a 5.0s 0-60 (at the very least, I'd love to see high 4s personally) on the Sport/Performance Model S they'll be in range. It won't be as fast as the S6 and S7, but as others stated, with that linear acceleration, it would still feel just as good.

Very happy Tesla was able to outdo even my "high 4s" wish. Kudos to these guys for pushing the envelope!

 

[ckessel]

Heh, you had just the bit about "let's ignore each other" and I shrugged and figured fine, then you felt a need to go back and edit it a bunch to fire up the flames some more. Hey, if you want to insist $100k base model cars and 2-door sports cars are proper comparison points for a 4-door 7 passenger sedan, go right ahead.

 

[dsm363]

It's really just a matter of opinion. Fast to someone is slow to someone else. Either way, both options are pretty amazing for a car that size. Especially since you're doing it all without gas.

 

[AnOutsider]

Heh, you had just the bit about "let's ignore each other" and I shrugged and figured fine, then you felt a need to go back and edit it a bunch to fire up the flames some more. Hey, if you want to insist $100k base model cars and 2-door sports cars are proper comparison points for a 4-door 7 passenger sedan, go right ahead.

I clarified my position on it (since you misrepresented my words), then, re-reading the whole thread, reflected back on the fact that Tesla surpassed even my own wishes. Relax man, I know it's hard to tell tone and intentions over the internet, but you seem to think I'm out to gut you at every chance, when all I want to do is discuss a car I'm excited about without it coming to negativity.

 

[kgb]

Wow. I was tongue in cheek when I was complaining about 4.4. I was partly implying that 4.4 will seem slow compared to my roadster. The other part was that I heard Elon mention a sub-4 Model S in at least one (I think I could find 2) interviews. So I was kinda hoping that would be the "Sport" Model S - I guess it will be the "Super Sport." Bottom line, "fast" and "slow" are relative terms. They are always comparative. 5.6 is faster than most. 4.4 is slower than my Roadster and on par with my Mercedes SL55 AMG.

However, as for cost: The mercedes is a convertible, to get the Model S as a convertible you have to get the moon roof option. So by the time I get the 300 mi battery, the sport PEM/Engine, the panoramic roof, the leather, and other options that the mercedes has, I bet I'll be pushing the $100 k mark.

 

[onlinespending]

However, as for cost: The mercedes is a convertible, to get the Model S as a convertible you have to get the moon roof option. So by the time I get the 300 mi battery, the sport PEM/Engine, the panoramic roof, the leather, and other options that the mercedes has, I bet I'll be pushing the $100 k mark.

Yeah, I'd bet the Sports edition will exceed $100k. I was told the Signature would be roughly $90k, so it's reasonable to expect a 6 figure price for the Sports. Completely reasonable given what you get for the price. And just think of all the money saved in oil changes and maintenance costs over any comparable sports car.

 

[TEG]

(Reminder: this thread was specifically about the Sport option. We seemed to have morphed into a more general discussion of pricing and options...)

 

[kgb]

(Reminder: this thread was specifically about the Sport option. We seemed to have morphed into a more general discussion of pricing and options...)

We needed a pricing and options thread anyway :tongue:

 

[TEG]

We needed a pricing and options thread anyway :tongue:

An options thread:
Model S options

 

[ckessel]

Back on topic, would you guys think that $10,000 (figure comes from the Tesla website forums as given by a Tesla manager at the event) is a fairly reasonable upgrade cost for the performace upgrade? Considering the upgraded electronics and gear system required, I think it's pretty reasonable.

Yes and no. I'd be willing to get a 230 and sport, but a 300 and sport is probably beyond my means. I don't really need a 300 pack so getting a sport model for me is more like a $20k thing than $10k. Now, if they had a 300 + sport bundle for $15k...

 

[dsm363]

If you look at the Roadster, they charged about $14,000 for the upgraded motor ($20,000 - adjustable suspension and black wheels). I'd imagine for a more mainstream car, they'd have to bring that down a little. I hope it's not more than $10,000.

 

[AnOutsider]

Yes and no. I'd be willing to get a 230 and sport, but a 300 and sport is probably beyond my means. I don't really need a 300 pack so getting a sport model for me is more like a $20k thing than $10k. Now, if they had a 300 + sport bundle for $15k...

I like the idea of the bundle

 

[onlinespending]

Yes and no. I'd be willing to get a 230 and sport, but a 300 and sport is probably beyond my means. I don't really need a 300 pack so getting a sport model for me is more like a $20k thing than $10k. Now, if they had a 300 + sport bundle for $15k...

I assume you meant 230 + sport bundle for $15K? The 300 mile option by itself is $20k. I personally would love a Sport option with the base 160 mile pack. I'd be more willing to drop $10k on the sport option over the 230 mile option.

 

[ckessel]

ck, they already said (som
ewhere) that the performance option would only be available for the 300mile battery pack because they needed that pack in order to draw enough power.

Right, that was my point. I want the 230. It's 10k for the 300. Give me the 300+sport for another 15k over the 230.

 

[meloccom]

Roadster base price US is around $110,000 and in Australia is $222,995 including on road costs. Govt subsidies here? Don't make me laugh!
Base S price of $57,500 makes an Aus price of circa $120,000. So I won't be ordering many options as that's a big stretch for me already. Plus the fastest car I have owned struggles to better 10secs 0 to 60 (100kph). So 5.6 secs will feel fast to me. I will look closely at a 240 mile battery though.

 

[Mycroft]

From the RIP Steve Jobs thread:

"My job is not to be easy on people. My job is to make them better"

I'm pretty sure that Elon "gets" this one quite well. I believe his announcement of the performance version of the S being available at launch was totally unscripted and his own desire/decision. I believe that he had been trying to get that option as a priority, but that he'd been getting too much push back from managers who wanted to "play it safe" by pushing out the Sport to 2014 or later. This announcement was his Kennedy moon shot challenge to the company. Steve Jobs was well known for forcing his management to do the unsafe things.

"I believe that before the launch of the Model S, we can get this car to go 0-60 in under 4.5 secs."

Strictly conjecture on my part, but based on my own management experiences.

 

[AnOutsider]

From the RIP Steve Jobs thread:



I'm pretty sure that Elon "gets" this one quite well. I believe his announcement of the performance version of the S being available at launch was totally unscripted and his own desire/decision. I believe that he had been trying to get that option as a priority, but that he'd been getting too much push back from managers who wanted to "play it safe" by pushing out the Sport to 2014 or later. This announcement was his Kennedy moon shot challenge to the company. Steve Jobs was well known for forcing his management to do the unsafe things.

"I believe that before the launch of the Model S, we can get this car to go 0-60 in under 4.5 secs."

Strictly conjecture on my part, but based on my own management experiences.

Normally I think I'd agree, except it was reported on blogs before the announcement and he had to be reminded and brought back out to even make the announcement Saturday