what do you think they're gonna do with all those P- waiting for delivery? Oh yeah, just flash them back to AWD because there is zero hardware difference.
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Performance Upgrade Price Change!
- Thread starter spesler
- Start date
Yeah I would be more than happy with that. I would be equally happy with a retro-fit to get me what the P3D+ drivers are already going to get for the price I paid for my P3D-
My P3D- after tax was $78 - no FSD, only $1k on paint. Not sure what you are surprised about.
This is not correct. Go look at youtube of the Serbian pronunciation of Nikola Tesla.
Go here:
caskater47
Member
My P3D- was 66k with paint and delivery. Once you add tax, title and loan interest it comes out to $79800. Do yea that seems right. If you paid in cash you save and 7k in interest charges.
I am not sure how you think the P3D- was not a good deal back then. A base BMW M3 is more than a P3D-, but is generally slower and gets around 16 mpg in the city. That is without any option packages, standard stereo, no collision avoidance. You put some summer tires on the P3D- for $1000 and I think it is a compelling alternative.
Regarding the 54K value, I think it is spot on for a trade in value of a P3D- without EAP or any color/interior upgrades. Taxes are generally not figured much in depreciation. Up until Friday, you could buy a P3D- for $64K and receive a 7500 tax credit. That brings the effective cost of a new one to 56500. Take a few more thousand off for a few months of use.
I know another way Elon can make it up to us all.
Warn us in advance before he decides to go ballistic on the SEC and UK expats in Thailand so we can load up on puts.
Then let us know when he plans to announce something amazing so we can load up on calls.
Restitutionsecured
Warn us in advance before he decides to go ballistic on the SEC and UK expats in Thailand so we can load up on puts.
Then let us know when he plans to announce something amazing so we can load up on calls.
Restitutionsecured
@whitex @MXWing We've shared many good discussions over on the Model S/X sides, so it is interesting to see your different takes on this. One might even say uncharacteristic takes?Goes to show how complicated an issue like this is. I'm somewhat in-between.
My opinion on the Model 3 Performance price change is this: Overall I'm absolutely of the opinion that companies are free to set their pricing and product content for future sales as they please, as long as they are not misleading of course (e.g. Tesla's P85D HP was not OK IMO). In this sense my opinion aligns with that of @whitex.
As someone who took delivery of a Model S P85 "Classic" (pre-AP) after AP1 and P85D were announced, and again were poised to do the same with Model X and AP1-to-AP2 (but chose to decline delivery that time to get AP2) I certainly know personally how technology marches on with Tesla. I have liked and enjoyed both cars tremendeously (independent of any opinions of the company) and consider both successful purchases, for different reasons.
So at least on the theoretical level and I don't have a beef with companies withholding advancements from their customers, I understand it can be in their interest and a part of business. That is how companies operate, though not all companies are the same - many other car companies do inform customers in advance (this may give some customer loyalty in return and is certainly something to be considered too). But in general, the Osborne effect and all that jazz.
That said, I also absolutely and completely understand us customers have different interests and protecting those interests is equally legitimate.
When it comes to interests, there are no rights answers, there is just a constant debate and a conflict between different ones. A car company has its interests, stock owners have their interests, car owners their interests. Sometimes these align and at other times they conflict, mildly or even violently. It is understandable and OK that all of these exist and everyone is entitled to peacefully promote their own of course.
One of these is the right for a company to set a price and of course customers to choose to buy or not - both at any given moment in time. That's capitalism. But that is not the only right.
I completely support things like online research and online advocacy as a means for customers to offset the advantage a company has over them on the secrecy front. The seller in these kinds of setups always knows more than the buying customer, which is inherenly an unfair proposition. (Even contract law amongst business knows and has precedent of these kinds of stipulations added to contracts.) So the customer has a legitimate need to be smart about it.
Things like doing online research into future product changes, following product timelines as a guide are just some examples of how customers can return some advantage to them. Online advocacy is another. I am old enough to remember, as @pmppk pointed out, how the original iPhone price change was handled, caused an uproar and was partially reimbursed back in the day. The recent debacle over the V9 software changes on Model S/X is another good example where a feedback-loop on these conflicting interests (Tesla's need to harmozine the UI between Models vs. Model S/X owners needs to make best us of their "legacy" cars) results in changes.
People have a right to have feelings about the purchases they've made and a right to advocate for solutions they deem reasonable. Especially so with product changes, because the secrecy inherent in the transaction means the game is rigged against the buyer. The seller wants to withhold information from you and they usually have superior means to do so, compared to anything a consumer might withhold in return. They are entitled to do so, but at the same time, ethically and realistically, you are entitled to have feelings and base action on those feelings afterwards - IMO that too is only fair.
Both entitlements are true at the same time. Hence the eternal conflict. Which, of course, is why not only smart consumers but also smart companies take this into consideration - as Tesla has done here, and as Steve Jobs did back in the day. One can argue the minutiate of the remedies offered in these cases - I have no particular need to debate those personally - but IMO this reality is clear: the seller-buyer relationship is an ecosystem like any relationship, affected by a multitude of factors. Ignore them at your peril. IMO @MXWing is right about this reality existing.
Finally, I agree with @whitex that with Tesla the buying journey can be more unpredictable than with some more traditional companies. There is also a history of quality issues that is real and I can sympathize. I've experienced all that too. On the change front, even us who have dedicated serious time in understanding Tesla's product roadmap - the hard-product, so to speak - can have a hard time making informed decisions, because reliable information is scarce and subject to change on an internal whim.
Add into this the two-quarter time frame in delivery for us international customers and it is difficult to time indeed - the U.S. customer on the other hand does not have our ability to get similarly delayed delivery and thus a delayed possibility of declining it (I would be driving AP1 instead of AP2 now had I had a U.S. delivery timeline).
Let alone if one wants to make informed decisions about pricing or other soft-product factors like re-packaging of features sold as is the case in this thread... These are even more easy for Tesla to change as they please and that is arguably even harder than predicting hard-product changes.
"Tesla happens" as they say.
I don’t think there is a more informed Tesla buyer than you on TMC.
I’ve mainly argued the other side that the best Tesla and the cheapest Tesla is your neighbors Tesla. Life is better when you accept that.
I’m way way less concerned about my personal shalacking than the completely boneheaded and senseless way Tesla want about alienating their customers unnecessarily.
Tesla could have given nothing and made more money per car if they didn’t commit unforced errors. Force bundle PUP. Raise price by 3750. Subtract 3750 Jan 1st - slam dunk.
P- and P+ buyers mostly in meh land with insufficient traction to do anything. Want to learn a 4D chess move? That's a 4D chess move.
The truth of the matter is Tesla did nothing wrong. You got what you paid for at the contracted price. With no cooling off period or price guarantees, you are done. What happens the next second is irrelevant.
Though the deck ended up being stacked against Tesla because they were wrong in the court of public opinion. No matter how right you are, you are still wrong when the customer mobs you in sufficient numbers.
My personal position is angst over HOW and the MAGNITUDE of Tesla’s move not what they actually did. My bitch to Elon is about him being a bonehead and hurting others - not about how he hurt me. The hurt is emotional. Tesla needs to price how they see fit. Perception however is reality. Perception is Tesla fracked the early adopters. Realistically, some price drop control and some price guarantee would have fixed this.
I’m going to have a moral dilemma once the options are announced as official policy.
I know in my heart I have no right to go after Tesla. But in my head, why not free ride the outage and score an extra 5000?
I know damn well 99% of the 3P- buyers were not gonna track the car. But it’s cheap to retweet and complain and free ride off of momentum.
I personally hope for a concession that doesn’t involve taking money from them. Some gain like a software unlock for them being a dick to all of us with the ninja drop and a lesson learned for Tesla would make me feel the best.
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lbowroom
Plaid, white on black, CF, 8/27/21, Track Pack
90% of us are 85% sure that someone told somebody they are definitely getting something, probably. YMMV.
Why people are so impatient? Tesla will let us know as soon as they can. If we don't hear from them you know what that means.
Glamisduner
Active Member
lbowroom
Plaid, white on black, CF, 8/27/21, Track Pack
I ordered my P3D- MSM in September. Hadn’t heard anything, with the price change decided to give them a call tonight. Was told I have been assigned a VIN (though nothing on my Tesla account), they have no way of telling if the referral code I used was linked to the purchase (free lifetime SC), and that any refunds or upgrades to the 3PD- were only applicable to vehicles purchased going forward.
I’m excited for the car but a little put off by the uncertainty more than anything. I expect to be resigned to a bit of disappointment (yeah, a deal is a deal) but there’s a little glimmer of hope of some sort of credit or upgrade. Like finding your long lost uncle left you some money in his will....I don’t expect it but would be glad to have it!
Ps this is my 1st post, I’m glad to be part of the community...
Until official word is sent to you via email or otherwise, assume anything you hear is anecdotal.
@MXWing When I purchased my P3D I always operated under the assumption I could buy all of this stuff later if I really wanted any of it (you can buy calipers, spoiler, rims and tires directly from Tesla for the Model S).
I personally don't want any money from Tesla. If, however, I'm now being told those who bought that P3D+ stuff are now getting it for the same amount I paid for none of it, I would like to receive it for free as well.
caskater47
Member
I respectfully disagree. When I ordered my P3D- the PUP was described as a purely cosmetic upgrade. Red painted brakes and 20" wheels, spoiler, etc. At $5k that's not a good value. It wasn't until the cars started to hit the street that people realized there was more to it than aesthetics. I for one was pissed because at no point was it explained to me that I wasn't getting performance parts on my Performance car I paid a hefty premium for. So no I didn't get what I paid for.
It's also not true that I will never track the car. I plan to track the car just as I did with my Audi S4 that I bought because it's track ready and just happens to be a great daily driver. I bought the P3D for the same reasons. The real failure here is Tesla. They failed to properly describe and market PUP in the first place. They failed after delivery to take my dozen phone calls and emails when I realized I didn't get what I paid for and now they've failed to handle a price drop properly. I tried to let them know I wasn't happy and wanted to switch. They ignored me.
I still don't want the 20" wheels (lower effeciemcy, expensive upkeep, lower track perf, no thanks) but I want the rest of it because there are functional performance parts that should have been in all versions to begin with. So I think I have a right to be pissed. I am at least thankful they are going to give me the PUP upgrade for free, as they rightfully should. But if they require me to give up FUSC I'll be arguing with them extensively over the fact that they have consistantly screwed me since day zero.
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Can’t cancel. It’s a contract both parties agreed to. If they cancel there is a heavy fee.
