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Permanently excited about Taycan?

Discussion in 'Electric Vehicles' started by VegasBlue, Aug 28, 2018.

  1. VegasBlue

    VegasBlue Member

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    It is obvious to me that Porsche made a blatant and unoriginal copy of the almost defunct Faraday FF91 a few years ago and is slowly bringing it to production. The shape of the car, dimensions and specifications are almost the same. Ironically theses seem outdated as Tesla has moved on. However, the Model S can't make it around the Nurnberg ring, but the Taycan will. This seems to be attributed to its "permanently excited motors".
    Can someone explain the difference between these motors and the Tesla motors in layman's terms?
    Should Tesla be considering Permanently excited motors in the new roadster?
     
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  2. nwdiver

    nwdiver Active Member

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    My understanding of the most critical difference between PM motors and Induction motors is that PM motors are slightly more efficient because they don't need to generate a magnetic field in the rotor but induction motors are more powerful because that can create a much stronger magnetic field in the rotor.
     
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  3. hiroshiy

    hiroshiy Supporting Member

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    Tesla already used PM Motors in Model 3 (only for the front). PM Motors use permanent magnets in rotors (versus stators which don't move). Permanent magnets don't heat, but electromagnets on the other hand generate heat because of two losses, ohmic and eddy current losses.

    The latter gets big in induction motors, causing Tesla's motors to heat up with prolonged high power usage. And it is difficult to cool the electromagnetic rotor, as it is continuously rotating. I think Tesla is using oil in the shaft to cool the rotor, but it doesn't seem to provide enough cooling.
     
  4. RDoc

    RDoc S85D

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    Tesla should use superconducting motors in the Roadster.
     
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  5. Brando

    Brando Active Member

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    #5 Brando, Aug 28, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2018
    Model 3 rear motor Tesla calls it a PMSRM, Permanent Magnet Switched Reluctance Motor. It’s a new type, and very hard to get right, but Tesla did it - see:
    Tesla Model 3 Motor — Everything I've Been Able To Learn About It (Welcome To The Machine) | CleanTechnica
    (if someone knows of a better article, please share - above printed March 2018)

    Model 3 front motor suspected to be AC induction motor (best for sleep mode - better range possible)
    (sorry, I forgot where I think I read this, maybe above article??)
     
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  6. Brando

    Brando Active Member

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    I hope someone does a Rimac vs Tesla Roadster ($2,000,000 vs $250,000 ???)

    and I'll be curious to compare total revenues of these two vehicles
    (margins too? probably not possible, but speculations should be fun)
     
  7. hiroshiy

    hiroshiy Supporting Member

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    Thanks for correction. I thought IM was in the rear.
     
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  8. Dmagyar

    Dmagyar Member

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    My comments to Porsche, where's this Taycan at? I'll need to see it on the road, a production version, not a one-of concept. Just sayin.
     
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  9. Kandiru

    Kandiru Member

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    Not only that, the Combo or CHAdeMO it would be using for fast charging would be limited to a few locations, making it a de facto city car.
     
  10. seattlite2004

    seattlite2004 Member

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    Its in the ring for more tuning. It seems that Porsche likes to test/tune it's vehicles before they offer it for sale. They don't have a cash burn problem so they have time to tune/refine.
     
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  11. Dmagyar

    Dmagyar Member

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    I'll believe it, if they can bring it.
     
  12. MXWing

    MXWing Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, Porsche employees are only looking at pay cuts for the next decade:

    Porsche Employees Agree To Pay Cuts To Secure Production Of Mission E Electric Car

    All that for 20,000 per year production? That’s going to be 2-3 weeks of Tesla at end if 2019. That’s hyper conservative.
     
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  13. seattlite2004

    seattlite2004 Member

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  14. MXWing

    MXWing Well-Known Member

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    Of course. Perfect Practice makes Perfect. If you got another 7 years.

    Sounds like cash flow is a problem if you agree to no pay raises for the next decade practically.
     
  15. seattlite2004

    seattlite2004 Member

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    Maybe..maybe not. Sounds like they wanna make money on the vehicle. 2020 model....my mental math says 1.5 years....those are Porsche years...so it's probably accurate.
     
  16. spectrum

    spectrum Member

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    I don't think the Taycan and the FF91 have ANY design details in common. The FF91 is more like a longer, lower Model X, while the Taycan is like a lower, smaller Model S.
     
  17. Brando

    Brando Active Member

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    #17 Brando, Oct 5, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2018
    Porsche produces ~250,000 vehicles per year total (two groups = 911 and SUV)
    Tesla On Track To Pass Porsche In Annual Vehicle Sales In 2018 | CleanTechnica

    I thought of Taycan as a competitor to Model X. But I don't think that is how Porsche views it.

    IF you market the Taycan in the US and follow the Tesla Roadster method as a model, for example
    - only a few markets (high end sports car markets, where Porsche dealers are) - limited production ~20,000/yr for US
    - high speed charging (350 kW) just in these areas in US - not too many to build - i.e. not US wide
    (more high speed chargers in home market Germany and parts of Western Europe - not so many needed)
    - sell Taycan to mostly to Porsche fan base - looks and performance main selling points - other specs matter much less
    - As Porsche a niche player already, these "modest goals" would be just fine

    PS- https://cleantechnica.com/2018/10/02/tesla-breaks-quarterly-delivery-record-with-83500-deliveries-in-q3/
     
  18. Brando

    Brando Active Member

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    SIDE NOTE: the Jag i-Pace certainly has the Madison Avenue angle nailed down.


    We shall see how the execution goes.
    May not come to US til 2020??
    Engineering seems to have great promise. Production numbers [batteries?] not so much. Big world/market.
     
  19. Mobius484

    Mobius484 Supporting Member

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    Think Porsche is making it so Adam Levine can say it has soul.

    Seriously, where can I charge it? I live in Pacific Northwest and like to road trip. I thought I saw that they were building a network, but then saw only 20,000 planned.....
     
  20. FlatSix911

    FlatSix911 Porsche 918 Hybrid

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    More pricing information from InsideEV's... Top-Line Porsche Taycan To Be Called "Taycan Turbo"

    ...there will be three versions of Taycan (the name stands for “lively young horse”), and base prices for each version.
    The top of the line version is called Taycan Turbo (say what?) and starts above $130,000.

    • Porsche Taycan – start in the low $90,000
    • Porsche Taycan 4S – from high $90,000
    • Porsche Taycan Turbo – over $130,000
     

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