Excellent summary - that sounds spot-on from my recollection. Given how much long distance driving we expect to do in the coming 10 years, I'm pretty good with the free supercharging. We just hope we get a supercharger closer to either our New England or Florida home. But even if not, we're pretty happy. I know a lot of people were all bent out of shape about how the performance model is now significantly less cash out of pocket, but we got the full tax credit and the super charging. It's all good.
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Petition: AWD to P3-
- Thread starter phantasms
- Start date
Excellent summary - that sounds spot-on from my recollection. Given how much long distance driving we expect to do in the coming 10 years, I'm pretty good with the free supercharging. We just hope we get a supercharger closer to either our New England or Florida home. But even if not, we're pretty happy. I know a lot of people were all bent out of shape about how the performance model is now significantly less cash out of pocket, but we got the full tax credit and the super charging. It's all good.
What makes you think this? I can see some future tuning tweaks to Track Mode (not a high priority though) but I am not sure how much power is left on the table. 0-60 times are are only one measure of performance though.
If there really is some power in reserve still then they should uncork it at the higher speeds on the M3P. 1/4 mile times seem to be about 11.7 at 115mph. If they could maintain torque for even longer we could see low 11s.
MagnusMako
Member
I don't think we're getting more out of the P3D, maybe a tiny bit. I also don't think waiting till competition can match it is a good plan either - they should strike the iron while it's hot. Have a look at the attached images from the hacked factory mode and battery analysis. Max discharge on the 75 kWh battery is 1200A. Based on this information, the P3D is already close to the limits to generate the horsepower needed to drive the unit from the battery to make current accel times. And to be fair, I don't think many P3D owners are complaining about the accel - which will be hard for competitors to beat for a while unless they also go electric. All Tesla needs to do is uncork AWD. They stand to make lots of money, especially from early adopters who already paid more to begin with. Is margin on PUP higher? Of course. Do most people want PUP? I don't think so. I think more people want accel and if they had a choice, they'd rather pay for it than PUP. If they don't have a choice, most people just go with LR AWD and Tesla loses profit regardless. So this fills in the gap and scales profit.
I think they should do something like 48k for LR AWD, then for 2k or 3k more and you get P3D- (accel only), then a few k more than that and you get P3D+ (like it's current price).
Attachments
As an owner of a P3+, the biggest problem with the M3P is that the hardware for the "Performance Model" is nothing to write home about. We all know that we are basically paying for the acceleration, which they are pretty much giving away at this point.
Here is what they should have done to the M3P+ to get more takers.
- Brembo Brakes (not Tesla branded) 6-Piston calipers up front, 4 piston rear. Just about every manufacturer in the industry uses Brembo now.
- Sport Seats for the 3P+. Doesn't need to be a set of Recaro racing seats or anything but more side bolstering and perforate them to look sportier.
- More Tire. The 3P+ doesn't really need 20"s, lighter 19s" would work but they they should have put a wider tire on just to differentiate the performance trim. 255 or 265 instead of 235 width would have worked and looked more aggressive.
- Front splitter or slightly more aggressive front bumper to differentiate the P trim.
- Sport Suspension - I would have loved to see magnetic ride added but even if we give Telsa a pass on mag ride, it should at least have performance dampers, springs and stiffer sway bars on the Performance model. I mean Tesla's idea of sport suspension is to cut the springs a little bit for .4 inch drop. If there is in fact slightly different hardware on the 3P then shame on marketing for not calling it out and selling the value.
- Heads Up Display - I am not sure why Tesla invested so much time on Track Mode but did not include a HUD or Performance Data Recorder application. The cameras and dash cam are there and you know they collect all the telemetry data since they used it to develop Track Mode. Just display the stuff on the screen. 0-60, 1/4 mile, lap timers, g-meters should be easily displayed.
Anyway, lack of differentiation in a Performance Trim is the main reason Tesla is dropping the price. If the 3P had the stuff listed above they could charge $65-70k all day long. Also, don't think it is too expensive for a company like Tesla to add this stuff because $45k Camaros and Mustangs have options like magnetic ride for years now. Chevy wishes they could sell 6,000 Camaros a week.
MagnusMako
Member
I agree with you completely. I think Tesla could offer a proper hardware package that really makes it more legitimate and aggressive for a track setup. They could put some serious components on the P3D+ inside and out and easily sell it for 10k more. I think they just took the wrong approach by making something that neither meets the needs of a true track enthusiast or as a daily driver. They should have just gone all out and charged accordingly.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Things like different seats when trying to ramp up MFG was a non-starter.... remember initially Elon said they wouldn't even be doing different (red) brakes until that changed.... the tires they did that way to not kill listed range (I think Elon even tweeted to that effect)
Now suspension...yeah, they crapped the bed with that one.... If they'd put magnetic suspension on I'd own a P today- care a lot more bout that than doing 0-60 in 3.2 instead of 4.0
Now suspension...yeah, they crapped the bed with that one.... If they'd put magnetic suspension on I'd own a P today- care a lot more bout that than doing 0-60 in 3.2 instead of 4.0
lbowroom
Plaid, white on black, CF, 8/27/21, Track Pack
As an owner of a P3+, the biggest problem with the M3P is that the hardware for the "Performance Model" is nothing to write home about. We all know that we are basically paying for the acceleration, which they are pretty much giving away at this point.
Here is what they should have done to the M3P+ to get more takers.
- Brembo Brakes (not Tesla branded) 6-Piston calipers up front, 4 piston rear. Just about every manufacturer in the industry uses Brembo now.
- Sport Seats for the 3P+. Doesn't need to be a set of Recaro racing seats or anything but more side bolstering and perforate them to look sportier.
- More Tire. The 3P+ doesn't really need 20"s, lighter 19s" would work but they they should have put a wider tire on just to differentiate the performance trim. 255 or 265 instead of 235 width would have worked and looked more aggressive.
- Front splitter or slightly more aggressive front bumper to differentiate the P trim.
- Sport Suspension - I would have loved to see magnetic ride added but even if we give Telsa a pass on mag ride, it should at least have performance dampers, springs and stiffer sway bars on the Performance model. I mean Tesla's idea of sport suspension is to cut the springs a little bit for .4 inch drop. If there is in fact slightly different hardware on the 3P then shame on marketing for not calling it out and selling the value.
- Heads Up Display - I am not sure why Tesla invested so much time on Track Mode but did not include a HUD or Performance Data Recorder application. The cameras and dash cam are there and you know they collect all the telemetry data since they used it to develop Track Mode. Just display the stuff on the screen. 0-60, 1/4 mile, lap timers, g-meters should be easily displayed.
Anyway, lack of differentiation in a Performance Trim is the main reason Tesla is dropping the price. If the 3P had the stuff listed above they could charge $65-70k all day long. Also, don't think it is too expensive for a company like Tesla to add this stuff because $45k Camaros and Mustangs have options like magnetic ride for years now. Chevy wishes they could sell 6,000 Camaros a week.
Your list would most definitely justify a $70K+ car & keep the $50K P3DL(ite) pretenders in their lane. LOL!
Are those images verified to be accurate?
They show the gearing to be different on the AWD than the P. That, sadly, is not insignificant.
From another thread I was trying to see what these different part numbers referred to? It makes it seem like there are two different versions of the front and rear drive units.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
The 980 rear DU is what has been found in every delivered tesla anybody here has checked worldwide with the exception of 2 european cars that got the 990 PN.
Nobody has gotten the 970 AFAIK.
The REMAN is likely remanufactured but it's unclear if those are in use at all- as recently as last month a RWD LR owner here got his DU replaced and the replacement part was.... the same 980 DU everyone else gets new.
It's interesting the REMAN front DU is the IGBT one, like the 970 rear DU nobody appears to actually get.
Nobody has gotten the 970 AFAIK.
The REMAN is likely remanufactured but it's unclear if those are in use at all- as recently as last month a RWD LR owner here got his DU replaced and the replacement part was.... the same 980 DU everyone else gets new.
It's interesting the REMAN front DU is the IGBT one, like the 970 rear DU nobody appears to actually get.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
MagnusMako
Member
The gearing is per InsideEV's from an article about a year ago, as well as their calculation of 500 being the horsepower limit. I can't vouch for how accurate or correct their conlclusions are, however they explain their methodology in the aritcle. I see that lbowroom above thinks it should be a higher limit.
As for the Factory Mode, that screenshot was from 'Ingineerix', a well known Tesla hacker / repair guy who has his own Youtube channel breaking down various parts of the Model 3. Electrek did a piece on it at the beginning of last year here about it and showed the screenshot.
lbowroom
Plaid, white on black, CF, 8/27/21, Track Pack
Its not unlocking AWD. Its unleashing P level power in an early AWD. You can currently choose acceleration boost for $2000, or get this for $2395:
GHOST UPGRADE
It's almost scary.. You need to have the right motor (980 or 4D1). Here's a video to help you find the number motor. The Ghost doesn't work with the 990 & 780 motors. The update transforms your dual motor into a Performance It adds 150 HP to your car... You'll be able to do 0-60 MPH in 3.2...
ingenext.ca
I'm waiting for the next sale of the ghost upgrade(was around $1750 on black friday). I'm a little concerned that Tesla will try to defeat it, but if it survives the next major software upgrade, I'm in.
I'd MUCH prefer to give Tesla $3k or maybe a bit more for the stealth P upgrade, but apparently they don't want my money.
MagnusMako
Member
Nope, and they probably never will. That's way in the past by now. Your best bet is the Ingenext Ghost mod. Personally I'll probably sell or trade in mine when they come out with a model 3 refresh with Performance from the 4680 cells.
MagnusMako
Member
Yes the thread is here. I have done it and a few others on here and I'd imagine many more who aren't active here. No problems after 6+ months of having it. I've also removed it and had warranty work done before re-installing it without problems.
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