Petition for Tesla to replace CCS as standard in US

[Olle]

This would be awesome!

Sign the Petition

Congress: Tesla Superchargers and Plugs should be the Uâ.âS. standard for EVs

www.change.org

Aptera asks Congress to make Tesla's plug and Superchargers the standard for EVs in the US

Aptera has launched a petition to ask Congress to make Tesla Superchargers and its plug the standard for electric vehicles...

electrek.co

I signed the petition. While I realize it's somewhat unlikely to pass I just want to stand up for what's right.

 

[RTPEV]

Sure, it would be awesome, but you can't have a plug be a standard if it's not a standard, which the Tesla connector is not. It's a closed format. Tesla would have to decide they wanted to open it up and then get a standards body to accept it.

As you said, not just unlikely, but highly unlikely.

Plus, even if by some miracle it were to move forward, I think this would do more to undermine the EV movement than improve it. Now you have a crap ton of existing DC fastchargers and vehicles that support CCS that would be rendered obsolete. Absolute best case is that now you have a fleet of dual- or triple-format chargers out there (or redundant chargers at the same site) that now should be maintained (but probably won't) and that cost more to make. Really bad idea. As much as I appreciate the elegance of the Tesla connector, long term it would be best just to bite the bullet and accept CCS as the standard.

 

[e of pi]

The person who seems to most want the Tesla proprietary connector to become a general standard isn't some conspiracy of car makers and charging companies...it's Elon and Tesla. If they have taken any single serious action in the last ten years to make it widely available without deal-killing strings attached, I'm unaware of it, and that's going to come home to roost eventually--arguably, it is now with the $7.5b DCFC interstate charging network funds which will either see them cut out, or forced to install open CCS charging at new stations funded with it.

Without Tesla actively pushing for this to happen, which they very much are not and indeed seem to be working to avoid, things get complex. It seems like the only way for this to happen would be for the Federal government to use leverage to forcibly compel Tesla to open up their standard, and then to compel every other car manufacturer in the country to pivot their current charging infrastructure from CCS to Tesla's proprietary connector which no one but Tesla has any infrastructure for manufacturing or communicating with. There's an alternate universe where Elon had Tesla post the TPC communications and physical standards on the Tesla website for download for free without restriction or a nominal payment of a few thousand and open licensing back in, like, 2014 and ABB and Siemans and others are happily shipping chargers to Chargepoint and EVGo with 250 kW+ Tesla plugs on them where choosing TPC over CCS for the national standard might make some sense, but that's not reality.

 

[UncleCreepy]

And while we're at it, maybe we should also ask congress to decide for us if Windows or macOS should be "the standard" that everyone has to adhere to.

Seriously though, this is something the market will decide. Actually, it already has. In Europe even Tesla uses CCS.

I like the slim Tesla connector but if anything, owners of brands other than Tesla should decide if they want to make the switch since it will affect them much more than it does us.

 

[Mockingbird]

There is a little problem.

That problem is that the Tesla Proprietary Connector (TPC) is, well, proprietary.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

Seriously though, this is something the market will decide. Actually, it already has. In Europe even Tsla uses CCS.

The market didn't make that decision that in Europe. The government there required CCS.

In the European Union according to Directive 2014/94/EU all high-power DC charging points installed after November 18, 2017 shall be equipped for interoperability purposes at least with Combo 2 connectors. However, this does not prohibit the provision of other charging points using e.g. CHAdeMO or AC Rapid.

 

[Olle]

Sure, it would be awesome, but you can't have a plug be a standard if it's not a standard, which the Tesla connector is not. It's a closed format. Tesla would have to decide they wanted to open it up and then get a standards body to accept it.

As you said, not just unlikely, but highly unlikely.

Plus, even if by some miracle it were to move forward, I think this would do more to undermine the EV movement than improve it. Now you have a crap ton of existing DC fastchargers and vehicles that support CCS that would be rendered obsolete. Absolute best case is that now you have a fleet of dual- or triple-format chargers out there (or redundant chargers at the same site) that now should be maintained (but probably won't) and that cost more to make. Really bad idea. As much as I appreciate the elegance of the Tesla connector, long term it would be best just to bite the bullet and accept CCS as the standard.

Agreed, the closed format is a major hurdle for Tesla to become a standard. So perhaps Tesla won't become the standard when CCS dies. But something will happen.

My eyes hurt when I first saw CCS1. What in an insult to electrical engineering and humanity in general it is.

But if you think of it's purpose to stop EVs from competing with gas, it's a thing of beauty. (It was a decent stab at Tesla too, cleverly made just a tad too large to fit without a major redesign of the Model S body.)
This is the reason that it must die and it will die as soon as EVs become mainstream enough. CCS combo 2 in Europe may survive since it's a little better and almost useable. But CCS1 is dead in the water and sunc cost for EV owners, automakers and station owners. If nothing else, lawsuits from disabled drivers will kill it. Even able bodied people can only shove a CCS hard enough to make it charge every other time.

(Friend of mine, long time Tesla owner, bought a Taycan and didn't know what CCS1 was. He thought it was going to be like his old Tesla, just plug in and for 1/2 hour and drive on. Oh boy was he wrong. His one day trip from NJ to here ended up taking two days, with half hour long calls to help desk at every other Electrify America station...)

 

[finman100]

Tesla IS the standard. it just works. upwards of 80% of the US EVs are Tesla. if that's not a standard i don't know what is. go figure the govt will screw this pooch. why is that?

 

[Whtrbt7]

I signed the petition because it would support a standardization that would be mechanically and electrically sound. If Tesla supplies the specs and schematics for their charger, we would at least have lighter weight and cheaper chargers which would help with EV adoption.

 

[Mockingbird]

Tesla IS the standard. it just works. upwards of 80% of the US EVs are Tesla. if that's not a standard i don't know what is. go figure the govt will screw this pooch. why is that?

Automakers who have patents worth protecting are never going to accept Tesla's "good faith" agreement.

 

[Feathermerchan]

There are more Tesla plugged C fast chargers than any other kind in the US.
There are more EVs with Tesla compatible charging port in the US.
So it make sense.

 

[Mockingbird]

I signed the petition because it would support a standardization that would be mechanically and electrically sound. If Tesla supplies the specs and schematics for their charger, we would at least have lighter weight and cheaper chargers which would help with EV adoption.

You don't know what you are talking about.

Most of the "charger" is a giant cabinet hidden somewhere and what you plug into your car is just a dispenser.

 

[Mockingbird]

There are more Tesla plugged C fast chargers than any other kind in the US.
There are more EVs with Tesla compatible charging port in the US.
So it make sense.

Except the part that it is proprietary and automakers who have patents worth protecting are never going to accept Tesla's "good faith" agreement.

 

[golferguy]

CCS makes more sense vs Tesla plug. Yes Tesla was first but the market needs one standard. CCS is better for consumers because you don't need a J1772 adapter as does Tesla. You cannot lock the Tesla plug in the J1772 adapter without yet, another 3rd party part. So people unplug Teslas.

When we all had ICE cars we could go to any gas station right? We shopped for best value or who you liked. Today in my State, there are CCS chargers at 30c kwh but Tesla just raised price to 58c kwh, in the same parking lot! I am stuck with Tesla unless I spend $300 to order another adapter, from Korea. Really?

Thank you Tesla for leading the world but the world evolved a little bit and you can assist it or resist it.

 

[RTPEV]

There are more Tesla plugged C fast chargers than any other kind in the US.
There are more EVs with Tesla compatible charging port in the US.
So it make sense.

Tesla IS the standard. it just works. upwards of 80% of the US EVs are Tesla. if that's not a standard i don't know what is. go figure the govt will screw this pooch. why is that?

While true for the time being, these are not sustainable statements. It's inevitable that this will no longer be the case in a few years.

I'm not saying that Tesla won't continue to be the dominant player...but they certainly can't be >50% (or even 25%) in the long run.

 

[finman100]

seriously? wow. go on with the stupid CCS if u want. bummer.

 

[Olle]

Seriously though, this is something the market will decide. Actually, it already has. In Europe even Tesla uses CCS.

The market doesn’t decide on standards, other than de facto standards, which is Tesla in the US. Heck, most Americans can’t even name any other EV.
Lobby groups, governments and standardization bodies decide on official standards.

What do you mean that the market has decided now? CCS in Europe was decided by the government.

 

[RTPEV]

You cannot lock the Tesla plug in the J1772 adapter without yet, another 3rd party part. So people unplug Teslas.

This is usually not true. Most J1772 handles have a small hole in the release latch that is made to fit a luggage padlock. That way you can physically lock the J1772 handle to the adapter, which is locked to the car.

 

[Feathermerchan]

I never use the J1772 adaptor unless we are at the movie theatre. The Tesla plug support AC and DC charging thru the same two pins. The car can tell the difference. No need for extra pins.

 

[Olle]

I never use the J1772 adaptor unless we are at the movie theatre. The Tesla plug support AC and DC charging thru the same two pins. The car can tell the difference. No need for extra pins.

The real reason for separating out the DC pins on CCS is to make it so clunky that it stops EV adoption. The committee on this consisted mostly of car makers. They make money on ICE cars and lose money on EVs. ICE executives are not paid to shoot themselves in the foot by paving the way for EVs Ever wondered why ICE-maker EVs have two to three manual charge covers per port while Tesla has one automatic? It ain’t to make charging easier…

edit: the clearest example is Europe where Tesla had already combined integrated the DC pins into the already standardized type 2, 1 to 3 phase connector which then doubled as Tesla supercharger connector. Type became the CCS2 top half with the DC pins moved out. it’s clear as night and day how a beautiful plug that worked was deliberate turned into something ugly that barely works.