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Petition to demand "camera on top, media player on bottom" be retained in UI
- Thread starter neroden
- Start date
My wife (who actually owns our Model S) returned from a long trip and is furious at the new interface. She feels very unsafe without the rear-facing camera and having to seek out buttons at the bottom of the screen.
It's possible Tesla won't listen to our howls of outrage, but I tell you something they will listen to: the first lawsuit stemming from a bad accident wherein the safety compromises of v.9 become a central issue. All a lawyer has to do is tap into forums like this where people are yelling about the safety aspects of v.9's insistence on taking your eyes off the road -- case won. Tesla was warned and did nothing.
It's possible Tesla won't listen to our howls of outrage, but I tell you something they will listen to: the first lawsuit stemming from a bad accident wherein the safety compromises of v.9 become a central issue. All a lawyer has to do is tap into forums like this where people are yelling about the safety aspects of v.9's insistence on taking your eyes off the road -- case won. Tesla was warned and did nothing.
Fine, roll forward, then. Presumably they still possess the code elements that gave us the autonomy of v.8 so that the wheel doesn't have to be entirely reinvented. Let's have a v.10 that reinstates those features. Pronto.
KArnold
Active Member
Very true. I'll use TeslaWaze on the freeway but rear camera when entering downtown streets - a rush hour coordination activity that needs to be done very carefully because of the amount of time I take my eyes off the road.
This release is dangerous. It's unfortunate that it might take legal action for Tesla to realize that. We're not talking about "beta" features either but rather fundamental automobile features.
Because nothing physical was done. The WORST CASE scenario would be that you would have to re input your profile data, as it may need to be wiped.
My wife and I both want the option of having the rear camera view back on the top of the screen..
But how will you know your not gonna cut-off the F-18s behind you when the Nav takes you down the wrong and outdated flight path?
I'll be happy to join people in organizing lawsuits over Tesla's breakage of basic functionality if Tesla doesn't fix it soon.
In the meantime, I've submitted an open letter to Cleantechnica for publication. Maybe enough noise in the press will get Tesla to listen.
Got my S in September 2017. Never considered checking online before doing an update. WISH I had, because I would never have downgraded my car this way. The day I got the "upgrade"after driving the car to the office, I jumped on the forums to figure out how to get my camera back on top and turn off this idiotic nav I rarely use and discovered.. NOPE.
Well.. this is just software, so OBVIOUSLY I can call in, set an appointment and get it put back to the previous version. They have done this before on my car when it shut down completely after an upgrade and wouldn't start. (Towed it to the service center and they had to go back to the previous software version to get the car to boot). Spent 2 hours on hold with tech support. Person picked up and said they are getting FLOODED with calls. "Every other call is someone unhappy with Version 9". They told me they didn't THINK it was possible but set an appointment at the service center. "Of course it is possible", I tell them. So they set the appointment.
Go to service appointment and am told "No we can't." Try to remind them they have done this before on this car. They apologize over and over and explain they don't like version9 either and have sent many requests up the chain, but they can't do anything right now.
Get a call from Tesla the next morning (yesterday) telling me "they are working the issues" and please give them a week to a couple of months for the engineers to work on something. I explain this has been going on since October 6th (which I only found out after going on message boards to find out how to fix my broken car) and to delay this long when owners are this upset is unacceptable. They keep thanking me for my loyalty and asking for my patience. Sorry, when you break my car this way I have no patience. It's very simple. Set an appointment at the service center, put my car BACK to version 8 and then when you have a new release, I will then consider it.
Or maybe I can just return the car for a refund?
View attachment 345225
It's reasonable for customers to demand a full refund of their original purchase price (and any extended warranty the customer paid for) if the manufacturer *breaks the car* in a software update and *refuses to fix it*. If I sued, I'd ask for specific performance first (bring back the things they broke), and in the alternative, for a full buyback at the original price of the car. Musk's tweet is sure gonna help with those lawsuits.
One or two. Total.
I can confirm this. It's really down to code branches and build configurations. Once things are set up right, it just works. This is old technology, relatively speaking.
I would say that they didn't break the car they changed functionality. (And isn't that exactly what you want them to do with each version?) And you accepted those changes by approving the update. This is especially true as you know that they change functionality with major versions, and sometimes in ways that you don't like.
For all we know their new crash data says that drivers are often fiddling with app placement right before a crash, so they did this to make things safer. (Not probably, but it is possible. And we do know at least once person already admitted that they almost crashed because they were trying to reposition the apps.) If that was the case I would hope that they update it so that you can setup app positions while in park.
It also seems that people aren't giving Tesla any time to respond, their first priority is going to be fixing install issues and other bugs while they gather feedback and decide what, if anything, they are going to do about the change in functionality.
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For that defense to work, I think Tesla would have to show they did a sufficient job explaining the changes to users before accepting the update and disclosing there is no option of going back.
The fact I tapped the install button is proof Tesla was lacking in their disclosure.
Furthermore, I have no expectation for Tesla to change functionality nor do they have an obligation to do so. I do appreciate them adding functionality, but I do not approve them removing functionality from a car I own.
That may be true for some people, but other people have been very vocal in their dislike of the changes to functionality from V6 to V7 to V8 and now V9. They know that Tesla does this so it is up to them to do the due diligence of finding out what the changes are before they approve the update.
I would also say that you shouldn't expect to be able to rollback, if that is a concern you have you should check and find out if it is possible first.
Earlier this week I called the SC to discuss this and he said there are no rollbacks. However, he did type up my concerns, took my account info, and sent it off. He said there have been a lot of complaints, they are collecting them, and “Tesla will make it right”
Shall we start a thread on what “make it right” means?
Shall we start a thread on what “make it right” means?
flipb
Member
I've still not received the V9 push, and will decline to install once I get it... am I the only one? Has the mothership matched up my VIN to my pre-emptive complaining, and withheld the software push?
(I did submit comment to [email protected] with my VIN, so perhaps they did...)
(I did submit comment to [email protected] with my VIN, so perhaps they did...)
Bill D
Member
A few days ago I went with a friend looking to buy a Performance Model 3 and we test drove it. Jumping from my Model S to the Model 3, I could see why it was a good idea to evolve the look & feel of V9 to be similar on both the big and small touchscreens. I can also see why Tesla going back to the V8 look & feel on the big touchscreen would be a step backwards.
However, they don't need to go back to V8. A simple addition that I posted earlier would fix it: They could keep everything in V9 exactly the same and simply add an up-arrow in the upper right corner of the camera display. A tap on that arrow would move the camera up to the top and expose the bottom section for any other app (or the Nav). Model 3 simply wouldn't have the new up-arrow.
After seeing V9 in my Model S, my wife refuses to update her Model S to V9. When I drive her car, its so much better.
Get on it Tesla - this ain't rocket science.
However, they don't need to go back to V8. A simple addition that I posted earlier would fix it: They could keep everything in V9 exactly the same and simply add an up-arrow in the upper right corner of the camera display. A tap on that arrow would move the camera up to the top and expose the bottom section for any other app (or the Nav). Model 3 simply wouldn't have the new up-arrow.
After seeing V9 in my Model S, my wife refuses to update her Model S to V9. When I drive her car, its so much better.
Get on it Tesla - this ain't rocket science.
How is a driver required to look away from the road while driving a Tesla vehicle running v9 (or any version of the Tesla software)? Note the bolded word.
TaoJones
Beyond Driven
Well, for my part, I was planning to buy a 3rd Tesla, but won't now, and won't in the future unless and until a) FSD is actually worth paying for and b) the UI/UX is acceptable in general. I tip my hat to those who had the discipline to retain v.7.x all this time.
The lying by misrepresentation about FSD for 2 years was one thing. v8 poor quality was another. The untenable nag yet another. And after the breakages that came with v8, Tesla knew better and still delivered the two-thirds of a turd that is v9.
I've long said that it would be prudent to wait for v9.2. Unfortunately, it appears that even that measured optimism may have been too kool-aidy and that the reality is, once again, that we'll have to wait for yet another version (v10, as Elon recently noted) for joy to return to the land.
With the new SoC, although who knows how long it will take to retrofit tens of thousands of cars with that chip/board and whatever else is necessary (presumably at minimum a software push, which won't be a big deal for most), we'll finally get the beginnings of what FSD was represented as in the now infamous late 2016 video. Not to mention in October 2014 when Elon said that AP would include stop sign reaction. *smirk*
At minimum, and sadly it'll take either another class action or the gubmint to force it, we should have release notes handy to read *before* applying the update *and* a reversion process *on demand*. Neither of these are likely to happen in a useful or user-friendly manner in the meantime or perhaps ever.
People need to take a step back and realize what Elon's goal was - to advance EV usage and a sustainable future. Well, he's done the heavy lifting and now every manufacturer and their brother is getting on board. Better late than never. Note that nowhere in there is it a given that Tesla's UI/UX will reign supreme in the future. And folks, at this rate, well, as noted above they're just going to have to show me before I part with yet more dollars in support of their vision.
In my mind it's like this:
Competitive advantage #1: Infrastructure (see global SC network)
Competitive advantage #2: Technical innovation pretty much from end to end in battery and to some extent in vehicle manufacturing.
Competitive advantage way down the list and most at risk: UI/UX.
Now, what does Joe or Jane Consumer base buying decisions upon. Take a trip with the wife sometime and you'll get that answer real quick.
v10 with a hardware refresh and a couple years of FSD seasoning should be attractive if they get their act together with the UI/UX. And there will be a pickup truck. Be still my heart.
But the ride from now until then is going to be a bit bumpy. To put it mildly. And I'm tired of getting less for my money with every major software upgrade - there have been direct impacts upon my safety (see nags, phantom braking, accelerating into stopped objects, just to name three). This needs to end.
I declined to be a class representative during the last class action - didn't seem right since I'm long TSLA. However, if approached, I won't decline again.
The lying by misrepresentation about FSD for 2 years was one thing. v8 poor quality was another. The untenable nag yet another. And after the breakages that came with v8, Tesla knew better and still delivered the two-thirds of a turd that is v9.
I've long said that it would be prudent to wait for v9.2. Unfortunately, it appears that even that measured optimism may have been too kool-aidy and that the reality is, once again, that we'll have to wait for yet another version (v10, as Elon recently noted) for joy to return to the land.
With the new SoC, although who knows how long it will take to retrofit tens of thousands of cars with that chip/board and whatever else is necessary (presumably at minimum a software push, which won't be a big deal for most), we'll finally get the beginnings of what FSD was represented as in the now infamous late 2016 video. Not to mention in October 2014 when Elon said that AP would include stop sign reaction. *smirk*
At minimum, and sadly it'll take either another class action or the gubmint to force it, we should have release notes handy to read *before* applying the update *and* a reversion process *on demand*. Neither of these are likely to happen in a useful or user-friendly manner in the meantime or perhaps ever.
People need to take a step back and realize what Elon's goal was - to advance EV usage and a sustainable future. Well, he's done the heavy lifting and now every manufacturer and their brother is getting on board. Better late than never. Note that nowhere in there is it a given that Tesla's UI/UX will reign supreme in the future. And folks, at this rate, well, as noted above they're just going to have to show me before I part with yet more dollars in support of their vision.
In my mind it's like this:
Competitive advantage #1: Infrastructure (see global SC network)
Competitive advantage #2: Technical innovation pretty much from end to end in battery and to some extent in vehicle manufacturing.
Competitive advantage way down the list and most at risk: UI/UX.
Now, what does Joe or Jane Consumer base buying decisions upon. Take a trip with the wife sometime and you'll get that answer real quick.
v10 with a hardware refresh and a couple years of FSD seasoning should be attractive if they get their act together with the UI/UX. And there will be a pickup truck. Be still my heart.
But the ride from now until then is going to be a bit bumpy. To put it mildly. And I'm tired of getting less for my money with every major software upgrade - there have been direct impacts upon my safety (see nags, phantom braking, accelerating into stopped objects, just to name three). This needs to end.
I declined to be a class representative during the last class action - didn't seem right since I'm long TSLA. However, if approached, I won't decline again.
