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Petition to increase the EV tax credit cap

Discussion in 'Model 3' started by Rexm, Apr 5, 2016.

  1. Rexm

    Rexm Member

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    • Like x 2
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  2. Electric700

    Electric700 Member

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    Thanks for those links and welcome to the forum!
     
  3. Tree95

    Tree95 Member

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    Why should the tax credit be extended? I believe somone in government thought it would be useful to spur EV interest. And, it sure has. So, why should it be continued when there are so many people willing to reserve a Model X knowing the existing credit is virtually certain to be reduced if not gone by the time they get a car?

    The credit actually seemed to has value for Leaf, Focus EC, and similarly priced car. For Model S and X, I think it's been a cruel transfer of wealth from all taxpayers to the well off folks who would have bought their S/X without the credit.
     
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  4. Snow Drift

    Snow Drift Member

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    If you lease, they reduce your monthly payment bc of the tax credit. You don't need to owe taxes when you file. Don't make this about Them vs Us.

    Signed.
     
  5. Tree95

    Tree95 Member

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    It is us vs them (although I definitely muddied my post by adding the last part which implied the wrong sort of us vs them.)

    Why should us EV drivers get a break against them who don't or can't?
     
    • Like x 1
  6. Twincam23

    Twincam23 Member

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    i signed it
     
  7. Craig9080

    Craig9080 Member

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    +1 to this
     
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  8. wdolson

    wdolson Active Member

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    The original purpose of the EV incentive was to get the EV industry off the ground and make them viable. Tesla is on the cusp of doing just that. If the Model 3 is as successful as it looks like it will be, the original goal of the incentive will have been met.

    It's not as great for individual consumers, but it's good for the industry.
     
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  9. Drivin

    Drivin Member

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    If they are viable with a 7500 credit, how do they remain viable when the credit goes away?

    Besides, how many people who could afford a 75k-150k vehicle wouldn't have purchased one because they didn't get a tax break?

    California at least has the right idea which is to limit credits based on income, but they didn't take it far enough since they have very generous limits.
     
    • Like x 1
  10. deonb

    deonb Active Member

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    The incentive made no real difference to Tesla.

    Keep in mind ~50% of the cars were sold outside the U.S, so no incentive applied. In the U.S. about 70% of cars were sold were higher end models where the incentive wouldn't have made any difference to whether there was a sale or not.

    So this leaves 15% of all sales for where the price would have needed to be adjusted for the sale to take place or not.

    They could have simply eaten that, and raised the price of all other models by $1000 each to take the hit for the lower end models, would probably not even have lost 50 sales total as a result, and would have still been where they are today.

    Keep in mind Elon's Secret Tesla Motors Master Plan predates the availability of the tax incentive by 4 years.
     
  11. Andyw2100

    Andyw2100 Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure I follow any of your logic.

    Just because some of the Tesla sales that qualified for the rebate were higher end models doesn't mean Tesla didn't benefit from the fact that their customers received a tax break.

    And leaving all of that aside for the moment, let's look at the benefit Tesla is likely to be receiving when the current Model 3 reservations start getting converted to sales. A huge number of these reservations may not actually see the full $7500 tax credit, and some may not see any tax credit. But I expect many of the people making reservations are expecting a tax credit, or at least hoping for one. They have made their reservation, and now they are going to spend the next couple of years learning more about the Model 3, and becoming more excited about the prospect of owning a Tesla Model 3. If, when the time comes to order it appears they may not qualify for much of a tax rebate, or even for any tax rebate at all, they still very well may order, because by then they will have really been "hooked", so to speak. A lot of these people may not have made reservations in the first place if the lure of a $7500 rebate on a $35,000 car wasn't in the picture.

    So leaving aside all of the points you made, (most of which I didn't follow or agree with anyway,) from the recent reservations alone Tesla will be benefiting, in a big way. I think that most certainly is a "real difference to Tesla."
     
  12. Andyw2100

    Andyw2100 Well-Known Member

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    The petition needs editing. It is missing the word "to" in the underlined and bolded spot below:

    --
    A significant amount of consumers across the United States this past week have made the choice for an electric vehicle over a fossil fuel vehicle. Many of those consumers will be ineligible for the credit because of the phase out and many more will decide not purchase an electric vehicle because certain manufacturers will exceed the 200,000 vehicle cap.
    --

    There are other problems with the language as well, but that is the most glaring, and I would hope easily correctable, issue.
     
  13. ucmndd

    ucmndd Member

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    Nor can it do anything to help. Petitioning the White House for a response on something they have literally zero control over is useless. If we're gonna engage in Internet slacktivism, we should at least be encouraging people to write their congress clowns instead of the president.
     
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  14. wdolson

    wdolson Active Member

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    First off only one company is offering an EV worth more than $75K, and that company will have a much more reasonably priced car on the market when the tax incentive expires.

    The people who were intended to benefit from the tax credit were always people with large incomes. The incentive is a tax credit, not a tax deduction. If you don't owe $7500 in federal income tax, you will never fully benefit from the incentive. The tax credit is deducted from the taxes you owe, not lowering your taxable income like the home mortgage interest deduction.

    California's break was initially modeled on the federal incentive and Washington had a sale tax break for EVs. Both California and Washington decided to restructure their tax breaks to only help people who were probably buying a car for those with smaller budgets. The legislatures in those states probably took the action they did because many people were complaining their incentives were handouts for toys for the rich, ie Tesla buyers.

    Elon has said he always thought the incentives retarded the industry more than it helped. Most of the other BEVs and PHEVs on the market are essentially low volume production compliance cars, some only available in states that adopted California's mandates, but few companies push those products very hard. He feels it would be better to tax fossil fuels to cover the damage they do the to environment. That would be a tough sell in the current political climate in the US though.

    Tesla has benefited from incentives in other countries too. Most of the countries where Teslas have sold well are also countries that have some kind of incentive for people to buy them, though each country is different.
     
    • Informative x 1
  15. deonb

    deonb Active Member

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    Don't even need to do that. Take the cost of the wars fought where oil was involved, then deduct the proportional cost of wars fought for purely 'humanitarian reasons' (e.g. in Africa), then send that bill to Exxon-Mobile and friends.

    They'll be sure to pass it on to the consumer, but either way, do that and you have your level playing field immediately.
     
  16. Shopaholic

    Shopaholic Member

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    I would vote for the cap to be reserved for vehicles manufactured in USA with atleast 80% US content
     
  17. wdolson

    wdolson Active Member

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    Agreed. At minimum they could take away the tax breaks and incentives the oil industry gets. Jacking up the price of gas would impact the poor the worst though.
     
  18. ggnykk

    ggnykk Active Member

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    signed as well!
     
  19. Rexm

    Rexm Member

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    I must say, I originally ordered the 3 because the tax break made it affordable for me. Now I may purchase with out it.
    But I want everyone to buy this car so that it changes the planet to think differently for green.
    And because of the good things Tesla is doing, we get a much better than average car for doing this.

    This reminds me of old computer days when Microsoft gave us dos operating system and Apple came out with nice windows, so Microsoft had to match it.
    Same thing here, other car companies will be forced to compete and we will all get a better car.
     
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  20. Ian Chen

    Ian Chen New Member

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