Petition to increase the EV tax credit cap

[Drivin]

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A significant amount of consumers across the United States this past week have made the choice for an electric vehicle over a fossil fuel vehicle.

No, they did not make an actual choice.
They paid a 100% refundable deposit to get on line to possibly buy one (see your next sentence below to support that point)
To put this in perspective, on average, 48k vehicles are sold in the U.S every day.

Many of those consumers will be ineligible for the credit because of the phase out and many more will decide not purchase an electric vehicle because certain manufacturers will exceed the 200,000 vehicle cap.

See? They got on line and as you state, they may not even buy if they don't get a 7500 gift from taxpayers. There may be other reasons they don't buy, but no choices to purchase a vehicle were actually made.

 

[Andyw2100]

No, they did not make an actual choice.
They paid a 100% refundable deposit to get on line to possibly buy one (see your next sentence below to support that point)
To put this in perspective, on average, 48k vehicles are sold in the U.S every day.



See? They got on line and as you state, they may not even buy if they don't get a 7500 gift from taxpayers. There may be other reasons they don't buy, but no choices to purchase a vehicle were actually made.

Please use the ability to quote on this site correctly. The way you used quoting, and the way you worded your post you attributed words to me that I never wrote.

I was quoting from the "petition", to illustrate a typo. That in no way means I agree with the statement.

Here is the link to the post you were quoting from: Petition to increase the EV tax credit cap

 

[stayfocus18]

signed!

 

[Drivin]

Please use the ability to quote on this site correctly.

That is amusing advice coming from the person who used the quote box correctly for part of the post, but did not use either the quote box or quotation marks for the other part that they now claim they are quoting.

I thought you rewrote that entire part and added a bolding for emphasis since you didn't actually have quotation marks or use the quote box.

Funny!

 

[Andyw2100]

That is amusing advice coming from the person who used the quote box correctly for part of the post, but did not use either the quote box or quotation marks for the other part that they now claim they are quoting.

I thought you rewrote that entire part and added a bolding for emphasis since you didn't actually have quotation marks or use the quote box.

Funny!

It's not advice. I am TELLING YOU not to misquote me and make it look like I said things that I did not. If you do this in the future I will simply report the posts.

As for the fact that I did not quote the entire part of the text in question, or use quotation marks, I could not quote it, because it did not originate on TMC. I chose not to use quotation marks because it was not a person speaking, and was not from a publication, but I did make it crystal clear to anyone reading that the words were not mine. This--the stuff between the ****-- is how the text in question appeared in the post that has apparently confused you so greatly:

****

The petition needs editing. It is missing the word "to" in the underlined and bolded spot below:

--
A significant amount of consumers across the United States this past week have made the choice for an electric vehicle over a fossil fuel vehicle. Many of those consumers will be ineligible for the credit because of the phase out and many more will decide not purchase an electric vehicle because certain manufacturers will exceed the 200,000 vehicle cap.
--

****

If I had rewritten it, why would I have again left out the word "to", and highlighted the fact that I was doing so?

Instead of going on the offensive, a simple, "I'm sorry. I made a mistake." would have been the better approach to take.

 

[CarlitoDoc]

signed.

 

[ggnykk]

I think petition like this will gain a lot more traction in late 2017 or early 2018 as the deadline are closing in. But good try anyhow.

 

[montreid]

Ironically, The expiration of this may actually favor Tesla on long range cars like Bolt and M3. Tesla doesn't Lease. The lease option with the incentive completely blows tesla out of the water. We lease both our Fiat and Spark for <$100 a month each. Bolt will be similarly very cheap to lease.

 

[Tree95]

Tesla doesn't Lease

Uhhhhhhh, I think you might be incorrect.

 

[MP3Mike]

Uhhhhhhh, I think you might be incorrect.

Tesla doesn't. They have a partner that does. (And the partner keeps the $7,500 tax credit for themselves.)

 

[Tree95]

Tesla doesn't. They have a partner that does. (And the partner keeps the $7,500 tax credit for themselves.)

Okay... I think that's technically correct, but irrelevant.

And, yeah, the lessor is the one that bought the car, so yep, they keep it. When negotiating the lease terms, make sure you use that to your advantage. In fact, this is a BETTER solution for the Model 3 buyers who may not have the tax liability to make use of the full $7500 credit.

 

[SmarterMotors]

I would love to see the tax credits extended. However, I think most of us will get tax credits on our model 3's. It seems like most articles I read about the Tax Credits has been wrong and people keep spreading rumors that most Model 3 buyers won't get it. I totally think that most buyers WILL get the Tax Credit. Below is my breakdown.

Once Tesla delivers its 200,000th vehicle in the US, then the 15-month Phaseout process starts.

Pre-Phaseout: The CALENDAR QUARTER that the 200,000th vehicle is sold in is entitled to the FULL $7500 tax credit. You get a mulligan for that quarter (so if it starts at the beginning of the quarter you have an extra 3 months here too which will make the total 18 months).

Phaseout Part 1: After the end of the Pre-Phaseout Quarter, then the IRS give you ANOTHER CALENDAR QUARTER (3 months) with the FULL $7500 tax credit.

Phaseout Part 2: After the end of Phaseout Part 1, there are TWO QUARTERS (6 months) with a redued 50% tax credit (that is $3,750).

Phaseout Part 3: After the end of Phaseout Part 2, there are TWO MORE QUARTERS (6 months) with a reduce 25% tax credit (that is $1,875)

Then bye bye tax credits. So there is literally 15 months plus the original quarter the 200,000th car is delivered on. I am pretty darn sure Tesla will attempt to deliver their 200,000th vehicle very very close to the Model 3 release. There is literally 15 months of tax credits for Model 3 owners.

Here are my sources (very reliable as it is from the government themselves with clear examples):

1. Federal Tax Credits for All-Electric and Plug-in Hybrid Vehicles
^^Scroll to the bottom and READ the PHASEOUT SECTION

2. Elon Musk tweeted on Monday, April 4, 2016 "Our production ramp should enable a large number of non X/S customers to receive the credit".

Another twitter suggested to Elon that he slow down production so that the delivery of the Model 3 falls right on the 200,000th vehicle

Elon Musk replied " We always try to maximize customer happiness even if that means a revenue shortfall in a quarter. Loyalty begets loyalty."

^^ I think it is pretty clear that Elon Musk will make sure that most Model 3 buyers get the tax credit.

Attached are some screenshots.

Also for all you guys who do not have a $7500 tax liability, just convert your Traditional IRA into a ROTH IRA and use the tax credit to pay off the taxes for the conversion. A ROTH IRA has no income tax once draws are taken so I think its a good choice..
.

 

[Andyw2100]

I am pretty darn sure Tesla will attempt to deliver their 200,000th vehicle very very close to the Model 3 release.

Tesla is hoping to get some Model 3s delivered in late 2017. It could easily be very late 2017. Assuming that is the case, and assuming Tesla is getting very close to 200,000 US deliveries at that point, the last thing we'd want would be for Tesla to deliver the 200,000th US car close to the Model 3 launch, in 2017. We'd be much better off if Tesla held off and delivered the 200,000th US car in early 2018.

What would be even better, though, would be if there was time between the very first Model 3 deliveries and the 200,000th US delivery for Tesla to really ramp up Model 3 production. So that when the clock starts ticking because the 200,000th car has been delivered in the US, Tesla could really be rolling the cars out of Fremont.

Interestingly some of Elon Musk's recent tweets indicate that he is well aware of the situation, and that Tesla will do what they need to do to help maximize the benefits of the tax incentives for their customers. I believe one tweet included words to the effect of "Loyalty begets loyalty."

Edit: Here is an image from another thread with the tweets.

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/attachments/screen-shot-2016-04-03-at-3-37-07-pm-png.170567/

 

[ndwolfwood09]

Signed! Even though I lined up, it may not last till the model 3 come out, according to this CNN article.

Most Tesla Model 3 buyers won't get the $7,500 tax break

 

[Darryl]

There is no chance this will pass with the current congress and it is doubtful there will be a major change to the next congress. Over the last couple of years there have been proposed bills regarding the tax credit on both sides of the house. Neither of them even got enough support to get into committee. Even if they had a Republican House and Senate would never pass such a bill as the money to pay for the loss of government revenue would have to come from another program as they wont increase taxes. As someone else said you may not want to draw a lot of attention to this program as it wouldn't be a surprise if a Republican congress may end it early.

You may have better luck to try to get some type of in incentive at the state level.

 

[ggnykk]

Kind of curious, why does the petition require 100k signatures? who set this threshold? Is that mean the white house won't even look at any petition that has less than 100k signature?

 

[wdolson]

Petitioning the White House isn't going to do much to increase the tax credit. Congress needs to take action and they aren't very interested in doing anything the White House wants.

 

[deonb]

Kind of curious, why does the petition require 100k signatures? who set this threshold? Is that mean the white house won't even look at any petition that has less than 100k signature?

The white house set it themselves. And even at 100k they're not forced to act. Just to respond.

And 95% of the responses boils down to "cool petition, but you're petitioning the wrong branch of government. Talk to congress/senate/state etc." That's exactly what will happen here if it passes.

 

[Rexm]

I agree, congress would have to do it and this congress would never help green projects.
But I was hoping, if like the gov petition to allow guns at GOP convention, it would get lots of press.
It probably would if we got 100,000 signatures really fast, but that is not happening.

 

[The_Gooch]

I waited overnight in line and although I don't plan on getting a fully loaded M3 I still feel fairly confident I'll be able to get the full credit but I signed none the less. It's a good idea and I hope they increase the limits