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PG&E Customers with 3 or more PWs: Interconnection NEM2, NEM2-MT, or NEM2-PS

holeydonut

Supporting Member
Jun 27, 2020
1,275
769
East Bay NorCal
PG&E just hit me with a curveball... they won't grant me PTO unless I agree to their NEM2 MT (Multiple Tariff) under Rule 21 instead of the standard NEM2 or NEM2-PS (Paired Storage). Rule 21 + MT seems to be next-level BS intended for people with solar farms and a potentially large export from their ESS.

But my PV system is only 7.9 kWp DC or 6.7 kWp AC. The system burst-maxes at 28 amps at peak. This is like... a small PV system by the standards of what I've seen here.

The 3 Powerwalls are set up for non-export, so I can't even imagine wtf is PG&E's problem.

From searching here, only @wwhitney and @heytae and @getakey seem to have encountered related items for this. Did you guys just say whatever and do all these Rule 21 requirements?

PG&E is finally dropping the NGOM requirement for my 3 Powerwalls setup
PG&E discontinuing EV-A rate
PG&E and Rebate


MT and "Rule 21" is like a 80 page PDF of wacky stuff that makes my head hurt. But major dumb things include:


1) $800 one time and additional $100 ($900 total) fee instead of $145

2) I must attest that my batteries will NEVER draw power from PG&E's grid (even in Stormwatch)
upload_2021-2-10_9-2-56.png


3) Liability Insurance of Five hundred thousand dollars ($500,000) for each occurrence if the Gross Nameplate Rating of Producer’s Generating Facility is twenty (20) kW or less. Policy must include PG&E as an additional insured.
upload_2021-2-10_9-9-47.png


4) Requirement to install a relay to prevent export or a NGOM meter.

5) Produce evidence that inverters (ESS AC couple and Enphase) are all UL 1741 compliant (easy enough)
 

Vines

Active Member
Jul 20, 2018
1,870
2,185
Silicon Valley, CA
Those requirements appear to be for the wrong type of system. You don't have a fuel cell!
EDIT: I was wrong appears NEM2MT is appropriate. I just looked at my interconnection agreement.

Either you really pissed off someone over there or your interconnection expert screwed up big time.
Also, the technicalities of PGE BS is not really in my wheelhouse, so take my advice with a grain of salt.

From PGE:
Net Energy Metering Multiple Tariff (NEM2-MT) is a Net Energy Metering (NEM) program for customers who operate a NEM-eligible generator in conjunction with a non-export or NEM fuel cell generator. The program allows a customer to interconnect these technologies with PG&E's electric grid at one service point, using one account, and still qualify for the special rate options that would be available if each technology were interconnected and billed separately. Criteria for NEM2-MT includes:
 
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h2ofun

Active Member
Aug 11, 2020
2,137
332
auburn, ca
Those requirements appear to be for the wrong type of system. You don't have a fuel cell!

Either you really pissed off someone over there or your interconnection expert screwed up big time.
Also, the technicalities of PGE BS is not really in my wheelhouse, so take my advice with a grain of salt.

From PGE:
Net Energy Metering Multiple Tariff (NEM2-MT) is a Net Energy Metering (NEM) program for customers who operate a NEM-eligible generator in conjunction with a non-export or NEM fuel cell generator. The program allows a customer to interconnect these technologies with PG&E's electric grid at one service point, using one account, and still qualify for the special rate options that would be available if each technology were interconnected and billed separately. Criteria for NEM2-MT includes:
That was close
 

holeydonut

Supporting Member
Jun 27, 2020
1,275
769
East Bay NorCal
Those requirements appear to be for the wrong type of system. You don't have a fuel cell!


@wwhitney is the only person that posted here where he was pushed into NEM-MT. I guess maybe he pissed someone off too haha.

But for real, this NEM-MT is meant for people trying to make money producing power. I don't know why Sunrun or PG&E would think a single family residential installation would need NEM-MT. The rules for MT are whack.
 

Vines

Active Member
Jul 20, 2018
1,870
2,185
Silicon Valley, CA
I just looked at my interconnection agreement and it appears I am getting pushed to NEM2MT as well with a similar limitation of not taking power from the grid.

I was wrong!
 

MJ_CA_2019

Member
Aug 19, 2020
111
26
Central CA
I have a 12.6 kW PV system and 3 PWs
My PG&E account says:
CURRENT RATE NEM2MT

My Detailed Bill says:
Rate Schedule: ETOUBRB/NEMPS

I had a Tesla third party installer do my PV and PW installation.
There was never a discussion about liability insurance.

My Appendix I has the second box checked:
upload_2021-2-9_17-54-9.png
 

holeydonut

Supporting Member
Jun 27, 2020
1,275
769
East Bay NorCal
I have a 12.6 kW PV system and 3 PWs
My PG&E account says:
CURRENT RATE NEM2MT

My Detailed Bill says:
Rate Schedule: ETOUBRB/NEMPS

I had a Tesla third party installer do my PV and PW installation.
There was never a discussion about liability insurance.

My Appendix I has the second box checked:
View attachment 635432


Did Tesla say anything about your insurance coverage naming PG&E and never using Stormwatch?

BTW, did you pay the $800 or did Tesla?
 

wwhitney

Member
Nov 2, 2017
822
1,039
Berkeley, CA
I have only 2 Powerwalls. The interconnection agreement I signed 2.5 years ago was Form 79-1193 "Agreement and Customer Authorization Net Energy Metering Interconnection for Solar and/or Wind Electric Generating Facilities of 30 Kilowatts or Less Paired with Energy Storage of 10 Kilowatts or Less". It had no Appendix I. I am on NEM1, so there was on fee for the new interconnection agreement.

Cheers, Wayne
 

Vines

Active Member
Jul 20, 2018
1,870
2,185
Silicon Valley, CA
As far as satisfying #4 Sunrun has a document that shows the Powerwall is certified as a PCS, and therefore doesn't need the Net generation output meter. That function is within the Gateway 2, as long as only 9 or less Powerwalls are connected.
 

MJ_CA_2019

Member
Aug 19, 2020
111
26
Central CA
Did Tesla say anything about your insurance coverage naming PG&E and never using Stormwatch?

BTW, did you pay the $800 or did Tesla?

Third party Tesla Installer never mentioned insurance, nor did I have to provide any proof
No mention of Stormwatch (installed Dec 2019 was that before it was available?)
I paid a flat fee for my PW2 install, so maybe the third party installer ate it, maybe it wasn't charged at all... no clue

I'm also in the bog of eternal sadness that is SGIP Large Scale Step 2
 

h2ofun

Active Member
Aug 11, 2020
2,137
332
auburn, ca
I just looked at my interconnection agreement and it appears I am getting pushed to NEM2MT as well with a similar limitation of not taking power from the grid.

I was wrong!
I am so confused. This has never come up in any talks with anyone. How did you get surprised? What is the practical meaning if this is real? Does this mean my effort to get grid charging for SGIP ER stuff is for not? Would this really mean no storm watch? This implies during fire season and winter, I would have to leave my batteries in backup mode, and not meet the SGIP terms, since if this is real, PGE's terms have changed. Did I already say I am so confused?
 

holeydonut

Supporting Member
Jun 27, 2020
1,275
769
East Bay NorCal
I have only 2 Powerwalls. The interconnection agreement I signed 2.5 years ago was Form 79-1193 "Agreement and Customer Authorization Net Energy Metering Interconnection for Solar and/or Wind Electric Generating Facilities of 30 Kilowatts or Less Paired with Energy Storage of 10 Kilowatts or Less". It had no Appendix I. I am on NEM1, so there was on fee for the new interconnection agreement.

Cheers, Wayne

But I saw in your post that you went with NEM-MT ... so you didn't have to add PG&E to your insurance? I don't know why you'd willingly join this weird MT NEM-tier instead of going with NEM2-PS or regular NEM2
 
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holeydonut

Supporting Member
Jun 27, 2020
1,275
769
East Bay NorCal
Third party Tesla Installer never mentioned insurance, nor did I have to provide any proof
No mention of Stormwatch (installed Dec 2019 was that before it was available?)
I paid a flat fee for my PW2 install, so maybe the third party installer ate it, maybe it wasn't charged at all... no clue

I'm also in the bog of eternal sadness that is SGIP Large Scale Step 2


Cool, I guess if the second box is checked instead of the first, then I can use Stormwatch since Tesla won't trigger Stormwatch during peak demand times.

Lol I hear ya. I'm stuck in Step 2 hell as well. They claim some numbers don't match but for the life of me I can't figure out why they think the numbers I entered don't match since the two pages they tell me to look at say the same bloody thing.

Plus they seem to be hung up on whether or not the Efficiency Audit where I literally used PG&E's own audit-website qualifies as an audit.
 

wwhitney

Member
Nov 2, 2017
822
1,039
Berkeley, CA
But I saw in your post that you went with NEM-MT ... so you didn't have to add PG&E to your insurance? I don't know why you'd willingly join this weird MT NEM-tier instead of going with NEM2-PS or regular NEM2
The information a PG&E representative gave me 2.5 years ago, and which may not be accurate, was that NEM-MT vs NEM-PS was a billing issue, not a regulatory issue. There are different regulatory categories more finally divided than NEM-MT vs NEM-PS. For example, my interconnection agreement is limited to 10 kW of storage, or 2 Powerwalls.

Cheers, Wayne
 
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Reactions: holeydonut

holeydonut

Supporting Member
Jun 27, 2020
1,275
769
East Bay NorCal
The information a PG&E representative gave me 2.5 years ago, and which may not be accurate, was that NEM-MT vs NEM-PS was a billing issue, not a regulatory issue. There are different regulatory categories more finally divided than NEM-MT vs NEM-PS. For example, my interconnection agreement is limited to 10 kW of storage, or 2 Powerwalls.

Cheers, Wayne

Lol I guess you're the trailblazer for many things here on TMC...

Did the PG&E rep tell you if NEM2-MT cost more than NEM2-PS on the recurring NBC's? I know MT has that absurd $900 up front paperwork and interconnection cost. But I can't find anything online about what recurring monthly infrastructure costs are billed under the two plans.
 

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