PG&E discontinuing EV-A rate

[bkp_duke]

I'm guessing complaining to PGE is pointless. How do we get the PUC to listen? This is ludicrous.. in a bad way

The PUC approves changes like this, or at the minimum sets the guidelines that the utilities follow. It is pointless to complain to the PUC.

What you should be doing, instead, is clamoring for competition (community choice producers, new companies to come in the area, etc.). I came from Texas where there is a VERY competitive energy market and I never paid more than 9c/kWh (even with the 100% wind choices).

Now that I'm on SDG&E I get ramrodded with rates as high as 57c/kWh.

This is the reason I got a big enough solar system and enough batteries that I don't touch the grid 99.9% of the time. Give the big middle finger to the CA utilities. SDG&E has gotten smart to this and now they have asked the PUC to approve a $38/mo interconnection charge for their solar customers (up from $10/mo). If this gets approved, I'll probably pick up one more powerwall and go completely off-grid.

 

[GregRF]

For vehicle charging here is our Off-Peak rate changes:

Summer: Old 0.12753, New 0.15633 22.6% increase
Winter: Old 0.13046, New 0.15633 19.8% increase

 

[miimura]

For vehicle charging here is our Off-Peak rate changes:

Summer: Old 0.12753, New 0.15633 22.6% increase
Winter: Old 0.13046, New 0.15633 19.8% increase

I don't know where you got your "Old" rates from, but these are the rates currently in effect that started July 1, 2019.

PG&E has been cranking up rates this year. The January 1, 2019 rates were as below:

So, EV-A Summer Off-Peak has increased by 7.6% just since January 1 of THIS year.

 

[GregRF]

I don't know where you got your "Old" rates from, but these are the rates currently in effect that started July 1, 2019.

View attachment 451412

PG&E has been cranking up rates this year. The January 1, 2019 rates were as below:
View attachment 451414
So, EV-A Summer Off-Peak has increased by 7.6% just since January 1 of THIS year.

Thanks for the update. The old rates were from the last time I updated my spreadsheet, some time in 2018.

 

[TallCoolOne]

Update on this...I called PG&E and explained the situation...they said I can stay on EV-A for up to 5 years. So that makes me feel much better about it. In 5 years who knows what the situation will be, maybe then I add a couple of batteries.

 

[KSilver2000]

The PUC approves changes like this, or at the minimum sets the guidelines that the utilities follow. It is pointless to complain to the PUC.

What you should be doing, instead, is clamoring for competition (community choice producers, new companies to come in the area, etc.). I came from Texas where there is a VERY competitive energy market and I never paid more than 9c/kWh (even with the 100% wind choices).

Now that I'm on SDG&E I get ramrodded with rates as high as 57c/kWh.

This is the reason I got a big enough solar system and enough batteries that I don't touch the grid 99.9% of the time. Give the big middle finger to the CA utilities. SDG&E has gotten smart to this and now they have asked the PUC to approve a $38/mo interconnection charge for their solar customers (up from $10/mo). If this gets approved, I'll probably pick up one more powerwall and go completely off-grid.

Just curious, how big of a PV system do you have and how much electricity do you generally use? You probably get a lot more sun in the winter being in SoCal. But, being able to go 99% grid free even in the winter?

 

[bkp_duke]

Just curious, how big of a PV system do you have and how much electricity do you generally use? You probably get a lot more sun in the winter being in SoCal. But, being able to go 99% grid free even in the winter?

12 kW SunPower System
3 Powerwalls in full house self-consumption mode

In the past 12 months we pulled 515 kWh from the grid total (about half that is just the PWs syncing to the grid - something you notice when you dig deep into their data). We exported a surplus of about 3600 kWh to the grid.

Usually our consumption is pretty modest:
- I work from home so commute is limited to wife's job, errands, etc. Therefore both cars get charged during the day, from solar and not the grid or Powerwalls.
- We use the AC about 5 months of the year night-time only, and 2 months day+night. I do keep tabs on the PW levels and try not to deplete them to zero.

In the past month we have brought a pool online, so consumption is up and will stay higher given we have young kids that want to be in the pool just about daily.

If we expand to a 4th Powerwall, we will probably add 3kW more panels to the solar system as well.

 

[JPP]

New EV2-A plan sucks. Yes, longer off peak, but about $0.03/kw more. peak time now shifted well into the afternoon/evening, so major offset with respect to solar production. So your solar cranks but is NEM at the partial peak rate, then you come home and use AC, etc at the peak rate. I just spent 30 minutes on the phone with a very nice PG&E rep on this, since I am being closed out of my EV-A in November (after 5 years). They offered EV2-A, which actually will add $1500/year to my bill, assuming my usage is basically the same as it is now. Believe it or not, the next 2 most expensive plans are the 2 alternate TOU plans, and the least punitive is the old E-1 tiered NON-TOU plan, which theoretically adds about $400/year to my bills. No good answer. Yes, maybe use Powerwalls, but you must charge them from solar to get the tax break (you can't charge from PG&E overnight on the off-peak rate). All just a way for PG&E to extract more $$ and screw solar producers. The only saving grace is that my panels are east-west, so i get a bit of a later afternoon boost.

 

[Ampster]

If this gets approved, I'll probably pick up one more powerwall and go completely off-grid.

I don't think that is an option to avoid the fixed fee. They consider it a health and safety issue and I think it is in the Civil Code that if utilities are available to your property, you have to be connected. You don't have to use any power but just the connection will probably accrue that minimum fee. I have no doubts if that is the case the utility lobby had something to do with it.

 

[bkp_duke]

I don't think that is an option to avoid the fixed fee. They consider it a health and safety issue and I think it is in the Civil Code that if utilities are available to your property, you have to be connected. You don't have to use any power but just the connection will probably accrue that minimum fee. I have no doubts if that is the case the utility lobby had something to do with it.

100% incorrect. By law, I am allowed to be disconnected from the grid here. Neighbor on the hill a mile away is completely disconnected.

 

[miimura]

Today's solar customers pay the same Minimum Charge as everyone else. I don't think they will crank the minimums up significantly because it will disproportionately affect low usage low income people. Of course, they could always change it up and make special minimums for NEM customers too.

 

[Odiemac]

12 kW SunPower System
3 Powerwalls in full house self-consumption mode

In the past 12 months we pulled 515 kWh from the grid total (about half that is just the PWs syncing to the grid - something you notice when you dig deep into their data). We exported a surplus of about 3600 kWh to the grid.

Usually our consumption is pretty modest:
- I work from home so commute is limited to wife's job, errands, etc. Therefore both cars get charged during the day, from solar and not the grid or Powerwalls.
- We use the AC about 5 months of the year night-time only, and 2 months day+night. I do keep tabs on the PW levels and try not to deplete them to zero.

In the past month we have brought a pool online, so consumption is up and will stay higher given we have young kids that want to be in the pool just about daily.

If we expand to a 4th Powerwall, we will probably add 3kW more panels to the solar system as well.

Our setup and consumption is pretty similar to yours. I’d be very interested in your experience if you do decide to do it, especially the process to add a Powerwall and how Tesla manages that, as well as how Tesla manages off grid customers.

One thing I would do is add some sort of generator hookup for emergency battery charging, or some of the methods being proposed here to charge Powerwall from EV. Even 1.5kw of charge rate would be handy to have for emergencies that cause low battery state.

 

[bkp_duke]

Our setup and consumption is pretty similar to yours. I’d be very interested in your experience if you do decide to do it, especially the process to add a Powerwall and how Tesla manages that, as well as how Tesla manages off grid customers.

One thing I would do is add some sort of generator hookup for emergency battery charging, or some of the methods being proposed here to charge Powerwall from EV. Even 1.5kw of charge rate would be handy to have for emergencies that cause low battery state.

Yeah, if we go the route of off-grid, we will still be hooked up to the natural gas utility. I would go with a gas-powered generator for emergencies in that case.

Honestly, depends on what SDG&E does with connection charges. I understand their argument that solar users need to pay their "fair share" for grid usage, but I think they are going about it the wrong way. Instead of putting a high, flat-rate connectivity charge on everyone, they should be increasing the "non-bypassable charges" rate. This is what people pay on net metering for energy they pull from the grid, and the charges are not zero'd out by what you put back into the grid. For those like myself (last month was literally NBCs of 7 kwh) if they increase this rate it doesn't matter because we are still practically self-sufficient. But for those that pull a ton from the grid at night and are true grid users, it would be fair to raise that from the current 3c/kwh or so to say 4c/kwh.

 

[bkp_duke]

Today's solar customers pay the same Minimum Charge as everyone else. I don't think they will crank the minimums up significantly because it will disproportionately affect low usage low income people. Of course, they could always change it up and make special minimums for NEM customers too.

This is the current plan: to increase the NEM customer's connectivity charges to $38/mo. This would NOT affect non-solar users.

 

[kiwiguy]

So it looks like my bill is going up 1380% from $120 to $1660!

 

[Ampster]

100% incorrect. By law, I am allowed to be disconnected from the grid here. Neighbor on the hill a mile away is completely disconnected.

I think it is a matter of interpretation and to be more clear I probably should have said "may have to be connected."

It is good to know some people are able to defect. Apparently there is some ambiguity and conflicts between the Energy Code and the building codes. The most that I am able to determine is that it may be up to the local permitting jurisdiction. That may be the process your neighbor followed. If anyone is interested, here is one article that discusses it:
http://www.cailaw.org/media/files/IEL/Publications/2016/grid-detection-vol10no1.pdf
I do agree that grid if the IOU's do create an onerous pricing mechanism there will be grid defection and that could result in a death spiral for some IOUs. I think San Diego Gas & Electric and especially their parent which also owns So Cal Gas is facing some long term disruptions. My own utility, PG&E is in bankruptcy and some rumors suggest they may propose to sell off their gas business and even possibly get out of the retail sector for electricity.

 

[bkp_duke]

Yes, I read the same thing. It will be something that will probably be worked through, legally, in the next 5 years.

Alternatively, I could just stop paying my power bill and SDG&E would be forced to disconnect me. Granted, there are credit rating and other complications related to that . . .

My biggest concern, actually, is that the powerwalls were installed with a large SGIP rebate. So I may be required to be connect to the grid (5 years I think) because of that.

 

[miimura]

This is the current plan: to increase the NEM customer's connectivity charges to $38/mo. This would NOT affect non-solar users.

It's not technically difficult to have a off-grid solar system that can still charge from the grid as necessary. You would just have to rewire the system so that it is not possible for the solar to back-feed the grid, then cancel your NEM agreement. Then you would pay the lower minimum charge as if you didn't have solar.

 

[Ulmo]

Let me confirm:

My panels are 5,880 watts CEC peak rated. We also have PowerWalls and a qualifying electric vehicle. Our system is undersized in summer and woefully undersized in winter.

I'm on EV-A. Our NEM(2) agreement was signed and made official by PG&E as of December 17, 2016*. I've always been on NEM2. If I'm reading these forums right, that means I won't be put on EV2-A until later.**

I want to add more solar panels. For the sake of discussion, let's say I go with Tesla's Medium 7,600 watts CEC peak rated system to cover most of my winter use (since currently I'm getting clobbered by winter bills), or even if I convert our gas heater to a heat pump and do something like the Tesla Large 11.4kW CEC peak panels.

I think if I had gotten on NEM1, such a panel upgrade would force me from NEM1 to NEM2, but since I'm on NEM2, that doesn't happen. Am I correct that my panel upgrade would not force me from NEM2 to anything new? Is there some sort of "NEM3"?

Since I'm already on NEM2, does that allow me to stay on EV-A, or would that panel upgrade alone force me to EV2-A? Would the panel upgrade cause me to have to rewrite the same NEM2 agreement thus triggering a rerating?

Since we have PowerWalls which I want to charge from both panel systems, it doesn't make sense to get a second meter.

I haven't weighed the costs of EV2-A on our current and future situations yet. I just want to understand the options.


* Yes, you read that right; I ordered the panels in Spring and everybody lagged. I estimated the cost hit to me to be $10,000 at the time; it's probably different now.
** We're on a local passthrough billing agency (Monterey something), so whether I've received some particular USPS mail yet isn't a good indication.
*** I'm adding to the East facing roof of the house. Our current West facing panels get only 2kWh solar before 10AM, losing out on a lot of sun.

 

[aesculus]

I'm on EV-A. Our NEM(2) agreement was signed and made official by PG&E as of December 17, 2016*.

How do you know you are on NEM2? I thought prior to Dec 17th, 2016, you would be on NEM 1?

PG&E NEM 2 vs NEM 1 | Your Energy Solutions

BTW I was on NEM1 and did a small upgrade. Because the CEC rating was more than 1kw they forced me to NEM2 this spring, but never gave me a new agreement. So I have no idea what I really am on. Cannot see anything on the bills or true up that states NEM1 or NEM2.