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PG&E EV2A rate went up by 20% March 1

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What policy changes can actually cause electricity rates to come down? It seems like generation is already really cheap, but transmission / etc are super expensive. Should we be pushing municipalities to have more local energy generation that doesn't need as much transmission?
The reason transmission costs have gone up so much in high renewable areas (roughly west of the Mississippi River due to high wind and solar irradiance potential) is because every time you put in new generation, you have to upgrade substations and transmission lines to accept the new generation source. In the past you’d put in a power plant because it was needed and upgrade the transmission system for it, and it would stay that way for 60 years. Now you have hundreds of new significant generation sources that often are not needed where you have to upgrade a lot of transmission, because the solar/wind generation is put in remote areas where there is a lot of land and high solar irradiance/ wind potential.

Breaking up companies would do nothIng to change transmission costs. Large ISOs (CALISO, SPP, PJM, ERCOT, MISO) manage most of the grid now and they determine what transmission upgrades are needed, not individual utilities. Largely the utilities aren’t asking for the new generation because there’s already an over supply of renewables in most areas , it’s contractors (similar to the folks showing up to your house trying to sell you solar), developing these sites because they know the ratepayers have to pay for the transmission upgrades, not the contractors.
 
This link goes to a rate tariff that is dated in 2020. How can we know that this is really the March 2022 rates?
Each page of the Tariff has its own effective date. Page 2 has the current rates and has an effective date of March 1, 2022. In addition, that link will always display the latest tariff. You have to go look at "Historical Rates" on their tariff page to find how rates have changed over time. Personally, I archive the PDF tariffs on my local machine because PG&E doesn't provide the ability to download the old ones.
 
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The EVB rates have gotten pretty bad too. I had the opportunity, when I did my service upgrade, to get two meters, and now, I'm glad I didn't. PG&E, as usual, holds all the keys and isn't accountable if they change the rules before your investment pays for itself. The only thing I'd have done is segment my service so that all of it wouldn't be usable for car or house loads as I see fit.
 
How does PGE prevent you from adding solar panels?


They told Sunrun that if they permitted my solar build with 25 panels instead of 23, they'd deny my PTO application under NEM2-MT.

They rationalized this because 25 panels with Enphase IQ7+ micros on PVWatts would be over 110% of my prior year annual consumption at my house. Only 23 panels with the same micros would fall below the 110% threshold.

I countered that I did not previously have an EV, and would get a Tesla after I got my solar and batteries put in. But I didn't have infinite money, so I was doing the solar first. You know, because I'm a regular human being... and I cannot just magically "raise revenue" to get more goddamn money into my bank account the way PG&E does.

PG&E told me to go eff myself and thought I was scamming them or myself was being scammed by Sunrun. Anyway Sunrun took the 25 panel design and dropped it to 23 to get to the next step of the project.

I tried to pay someone on the side to just put the 2 panels up on my roof (with Enphase micros on a string that could support the extra 2 panels). But they declined.
 
They told Sunrun that if they permitted my solar build with 25 panels instead of 23, they'd deny my PTO application under NEM2-MT.

They rationalized this because 25 panels with Enphase IQ7+ micros on PVWatts would be over 110% of my prior year annual consumption at my house. Only 23 panels with the same micros would fall below the 110% threshold.

I countered that I did not previously have an EV, and would get a Tesla after I got my solar and batteries put in. But I didn't have infinite money, so I was doing the solar first. You know, because I'm a regular human being... and I cannot just magically "raise revenue" to get more goddamn money into my bank account the way PG&E does.

PG&E told me to go eff myself and thought I was scamming them or myself was being scammed by Sunrun. Anyway Sunrun took the 25 panel design and dropped it to 23 to get to the next step of the project.

I tried to pay someone on the side to just put the 2 panels up on my roof (with Enphase micros on a string that could support the extra 2 panels). But they declined.
You can install whatever you want. The issue is when you want to connect to their distribution system that is highly regulated. Many of the restrictions the utilities convey to people are just pass through restrictions the utility has to abide by. If they allow you to over build then they need to let everyone else overbuild and then the energy would flow back onto the transmission system, which is even more regulated by CALISO, FERC, and NERC (and more). When the energy cost is negative pricing because energy is being produced that isn’t needed, are you willing to pay the utility for putting energy on the grid when it’s not needed and it’s causing reliability issues? If you don’t pay then the other rate payers would be on the hook for paying. Not to mention they would have to then turn off their utility scale solar generation to compensate which is about a 1/5th of the cost of home solar generation.
 
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You can install whatever you want. The issue is when you want to connect to their distribution system that is highly regulated. Many of the restrictions the utilities convey to people are just pass through restrictions the utility has to abide by. If they allow you to over build then they need to let everyone else overbuild and then the energy would flow back onto the transmission system, which is even more regulated by CALISO, FERC, and NERC (and more). When the energy cost is negative pricing because energy is being produced that isn’t needed, are you willing to pay the utility for putting energy on the grid when it’s not needed and it’s causing reliability issues? If you don’t pay then the other rate payers would be on the hook for paying. Not to mention they would have to then turn off their utility scale solar generation to compensate which is about a 1/5th of the cost of home solar generation.


I feel like you are one of the people who are in support of the Joint IOU proposal for NEM 3.0.

I just wish PG&E would treat people the same. I know many people who over-sized their solar just fine (like h2ofun built a goddamn solar farm on his house). Anyway, because PG&E are straight up a-holes, now I don't produce as much electricity as I consume each year.
 
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I feel like you are one of the people who are in support of the Joint IOU proposal for NEM 3.0.

I just wish PG&E would treat people the same. I know many people who over-sized their solar just fine (like h2ofun built a goddamn solar farm on his house). Anyway, because PG&E are straight up a-holes, now I don't produce as much electricity as I consume each year.
Can't you just install your solar in a non-export (or export-capped) configuration? Something like no energy gets exported and all extra goes into your on-site storage, or you configure it to never export more than say 5kW at a time. Essentially this would be a self-curtailing system.

What they should really do is have dynamic pricing where each person can configure the on-site storage to export up to a certain amount, if the price paid per kWh goes above a certain threshold. The higher the price, the more is exported. If a power plant goes down, they should be able to easily buy more power by raising the price they're paying and letting the market balance supply and demand.
 
I feel like you are one of the people who are in support of the Joint IOU proposal for NEM 3.0.

I just wish PG&E would treat people the same. I know many people who over-sized their solar just fine (like h2ofun built a goddamn solar farm on his house). Anyway, because PG&E are straight up a-holes, now I don't produce as much electricity as I consume each year.
Worst I believe happens is if you exceed the net generation PGE has on the book, they cap the credit per month. That happened to me
 
I feel like you are one of the people who are in support of the Joint IOU proposal for NEM 3.0.

I just wish PG&E would treat people the same. I know many people who over-sized their solar just fine (like h2ofun built a goddamn solar farm on his house). Anyway, because PG&E are straight up a-holes, now I don't produce as much electricity as I consume each year.
Again, you can do anything you want on your own. It sounds like you want to produce expensive energy when it’s not needed and then at a point in time when energy is expensive and you can’t produce energy, they credit your bill at the expense of your neighbors. Just disconnect from the grid and all your hatred for the utility should disappear.
 
Again, you can do anything you want on your own. It sounds like you want to produce expensive energy when it’s not needed and then at a point in time when energy is expensive and you can’t produce energy, they credit your bill at the expense of your neighbors. Just disconnect from the grid and all your hatred for the utility should disappear.


"I can do what I want on my own?" No. No I can't. I'm not climbing up on a vaulted ceiling that is like 25 feet up and installing my own solar panels.

All I wanted was a solar array sized to 100% of my annual home consumption inclusive of home-charging an EV to drive about 10,000 miles. But PG&E has to be absolute tool-bags and denied my attempt. All while they simultaneously allow all sorts of people on TMC to oversize their solar arrays and over-generate compared to their annual consumption.

It makes no sense to put your own false-motives in my mouth about "producing expensive energy when it's not needed" and then blah blah blah.

I don't have enough solar or batteries to disconnect from the grid. Maybe if Doc Brown had invented that Mr. Fusion thing, we'd all be disconnected from the PoCo and running off-grid. My neighbors aren't paying for jack all of anything related to my 23 or 25 panels. That BS narrative pushed by the IOUs is full of crap and you know it. If residential solar vanished tomorrow and the state's mandates of renewables stayed the same... people's energy costs would go up; not down.
 
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Can't you just install your solar in a non-export (or export-capped) configuration? Something like...

No... no I can't. I wouldn't know how to magically do that. I need licensed installers who are beholden to PG&E's bullsh!t to do a solar and ESS install for me because I'm not some tech-whiz.

To my knowledge, nobody else on TMC has a "capped export" system under NEM 2.0... and some of them have arrays sized to 150% their annual consumption.
 
"I can do what I want on my own?" No. No I can't. I'm not climbing up on a vaulted ceiling that is like 25 feet up and installing my own solar panels.

All I wanted was a solar array sized to 100% of my annual home consumption inclusive of home-charging an EV to drive about 10,000 miles. But PG&E has to be absolute tool-bags and denied my attempt. All while they simultaneously allow all sorts of people on TMC to oversize their solar arrays and over-generate compared to their annual consumption.

It makes no sense to put your own false-motives in my mouth about "producing expensive energy when it's not needed" and then blah blah blah.

I don't have enough solar or batteries to disconnect from the grid. Maybe if Doc Brown had invented that Mr. Fusion thing, we'd all be disconnected from the PoCo and running off-grid. My neighbors aren't paying for jack all of anything related to my 23 or 25 panels. That BS narrative is full of crap and you know it.
How can you have a solar array sized for your annual consumption unless you only use energy when the sun is shining? Again, you are trying to lower your costs at the expense of your neighbors expense. This is one of the reasons rates keep going up. Folks abusing the system at the expense of their neighbors. A utility makes zero dollars off of energy sales. They don’t want your energy because it’s too expensive at a time when they don’t need it and they have a responsibility to be lowest cost for all rate payers. You are trying to force someone to buy something at a higher value than it’s worth. Energy needs to be used at the time when its produced unless you pay to store it. You don’t want to pay for storage though, you want your neighbors to pay for it.

Home solar has two losers and one winner. The two losers are the home owner and the rate payers. The one winner is the contractor that showed you false economics and walked away at the end of the installation to let the home owner and utility fight to the death. Your anger is focused on the wrong entity.
 
How can you have a solar array sized for your annual consumption unless you only use energy when the sun is shining? Again, you are trying to lower your costs at the expense of your neighbors expense. This is one of the reasons rates keep going up. Folks abusing the system at the expense of their neighbors. A utility makes zero dollars off of energy sales. They don’t want your energy because it’s too expensive at a time when they don’t need it and they have a responsibility to be lowest cost for all rate payers. You are trying to force someone to buy something at a higher value than it’s worth. Energy needs to be used at the time when its produced unless you pay to store it. You don’t want to pay for storage though, you want your neighbors to pay for it.

Home solar has two losers and one winner. The two losers are the home owner and the rate payers. The one winner is the contractor that showed you false economics and walked away at the end of the installation to let the home owner and utility fight to the death. Your anger is focused on the wrong entity.

I think you should head over to the Energy sub-forum and join the NEM 3.0 conversation. Post your "2 losers and one winner" concept in that stickied thread over there. That way the mods don't think I'm just derailing this thread here.

But to answer your question about sizing a solar array... I'm taking the mindset at this moment for California right now under NEM 2.0. Under this program, homeowners have an annual true up to the extent their entire annual net consumption across their PG&E meter is 'net metered' against their entire annual net solar exports that went back across that same meter.

For some (like myself) the goal is to create a scenario where their home solar generates an amount of energy where
the energy exported to the grid minus the energy the home had to import from the grid equals zero across the true-up year. And yes, this means any solar-produced energy that the home contemporaneously uses in the daytime is automatically offset since it neither pushes energy to or pulls energy from the Grid.

But, I have 3 Powerwalls. The purpose of these as it relates to this thread is to allow my home to go through the entirety of the EV2-A shoulder and peak times (3pm to midnight). The extra objective of my PV+ESS is that my home doesn't put any stress on the grid at those times. The 39 kWh the 3 Powerwalls can hold can power my home even in the hottest of summer days where I don't put stress on the grid with my air conditioners and electric dinner meal prep.

However, my 3 Powerwalls are probably not very common. For homeowners who get solar now under a PG&E coverage area, they are allowed to size their solar array up to 110% of their home's prior year electricity consumption. The "grid" sort of becomes their solar battery, so most solar customers skip the battery. Under NEM 2.0, the homeowner isn't required to somehow have their house consume all that solar power the moment it's generated. And, that's why homeowners by and large do not store energy on-site (Powerwalls) to be used later. Of course, TMC has a lot of Tesla-nuts that get batteries too because they're cool. But TMC users aren't your average customer.

But NEM 3.0 is different; it does create disincentives to export energy to the grid. So yes, several TMC users have been discussing how to minimize/throttle exports under NEM 3.0, since the latest proposed language does operate in a way more like how you are thinking about net metering.

Here's an example of the snippet of today's NEM 2.0 form from a TMC user in 2021. You can see this example home with a 7.556 kWp AC rated array at their exact geo-coordinates with a certain azimuth and tilt of panels will generate an estimated 12,573 kWh per year. But this home only used 5,104 kWh in the prior annual year (as reported by PG&E's greenbutton dataest). But, homeowners who are planning a modification that increases their annual electricity load are supposed to be allowed a "planned increase" addition; that PG&E is allowed to grant or deny at their discretion. In this case, the homeowner is trying to say they were getting an EV and doing some home upgrades to switch natural gas appliances to electric. In a crazy turn of events, PG&E authorized the solar array.


1648788072976.png


I was trying to get an extra 1,000 kWh on my proposal (25 panels instead of 23) and PG&E told me to go eff myself. And this was all before I really started to hate PG&E. Back when I started my project, I just wanted to net-meter my solar and add batteries for resiliency. I am a man of my word, I did indeed get an EV. But now I don't produce enough solar power per year to cover my annual usage because PG&E thought I was lying about wanting to get an EV.

PG&E made my solar+ESS project the worst experience, which is why now I just straight up hate them. Unfathomably they have allowed a bunch of other homeowners to do what I was trying to do without a sweat.
 
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I think you should head over to the Energy sub-forum and join the NEM 3.0 conversation. Post your "2 losers and one winner" concept in that stickied thread over there. That way the mods don't think I'm just derailing this thread here.

But to answer your question about sizing a solar array... I'm taking the mindset at this moment for California right now under NEM 2.0. Under this program, homeowners have an annual true up to the extent their entire annual net consumption across their PG&E meter is 'net metered' against their entire annual net solar exports that went back across that same meter.

For some (like myself) the goal is to create a scenario where their home solar generates an amount of energy where
the energy exported to the grid minus the energy the home had to import from the grid equals zero across the true-up year. And yes, this means any solar-produced energy that the home contemporaneously uses in the daytime is automatically offset since it neither pushes energy to or pulls energy from the Grid.

But, I have 3 Powerwalls. The purpose of these as it relates to this thread is to allow my home to go through the entirety of the EV2-A shoulder and peak times (3pm to midnight). The extra objective of my PV+ESS is that my home doesn't put any stress on the grid at those times. The 39 kWh the 3 Powerwalls can hold can power my home even in the hottest of summer days where I don't put stress on the grid with my air conditioners and electric dinner meal prep.

However, my 3 Powerwalls are probably not very common. For homeowners who get solar now under a PG&E coverage area, they are allowed to size their solar array up to 110% of their home's prior year electricity consumption. The "grid" sort of becomes their solar battery, so most solar customers skip the battery. Of course, TMC has a lot of Tesla-nuts that get batteries too because they're cool. But TMC users aren't your average customer.

Under NEM 2.0, the homeowner required to 'net out' only during the contemporaneous moments of sun-up. The homeowner isn't required to somehow have their house consume all that solar power the moment it's generated. And, that's why homeowners by and large do not store energy on-site (Powerwalls) to be used later. But NEM 3.0 is different; it does create disincentives to export energy to the grid. So yes, several TMC users have been discussing how to minimize/throttle exports under NEM 3.0, since the latest proposed language does operate in a way more like how you are thinking about net metering.

Here's an example of the snippet of today's NEM 2.0 form from a TMC user in 2021. You can see this example home with a 7.556 kWp AC rated array at their exact geo-coordinates with a certain azimuth and tilt of panels will generate an estimated 12,573 kWh per year. But this home only used 5,104 kWh in the prior annual year (as reported by PG&E's greenbutton dataest). But, homeowners who are planning a modification that increases their annual electricity load are supposed to be allowed a "planned increase" addition; that PG&E is allowed to grant or deny at their discretion. In this case, the homeowner is trying to say they were getting an EV and doing some home upgrades to switch natural gas appliances to electric. In a crazy turn of events, PG&E authorized the solar array.


View attachment 788630

I was trying to get an extra 1,000 kWh on my proposal (25 panels instead of 22) and PG&E told me to go eff myself. And this was all before I really started to hate PG&E. Back when I started my project, I just wanted to net-meter my solar and add batteries for resiliency.

PG&E made my efforts the worst, which is why now I just straight up hate them.
This whole conversation is crazy. You want your neighbors to pay for infrastructure and energy to lower your costs and you are mad that their advocate (PG&E) won‘t allow your costs to be transferred to them. You won’t disconnect from the grid because you need to use the PG&E infrastructure and fossil fuel produced energy to reduce your personal costs. Criminal comes to mind…
 
This whole conversation is crazy. You want your neighbors to pay for infrastructure and energy to lower your costs and you are mad that their advocate (PG&E) won‘t allow your costs to be transferred to them. You won’t disconnect from the grid because you need to use the PG&E infrastructure and fossil fuel produced energy to reduce your personal costs. Criminal comes to mind…

I always assumed there was one person out there that actually bought the whole manufactured argument about the poors being forced to subsidize the grid for their fat cat aristocrat neighbors, but I never imagined I’d have the privilege to meet them!
 
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This whole conversation is crazy. You want your neighbors to pay for infrastructure and energy to lower your costs and you are mad that their advocate (PG&E) won‘t allow your costs to be transferred to them. You won’t disconnect from the grid because you need to use the PG&E infrastructure and fossil fuel produced energy to reduce your personal costs. Criminal comes to mind…


Lol, go check out that thread already man. You're clearly triggered at all those homeowners who have put solar on their rooftops in California. Many have presented examples addressing the "cost shift" thing you've got bouncing around in your head. The cost shift is a manufactured class warfare smokescreen that the IOUs designed to pit homeowners against one another instead of rallying in a unified way against the IOUs.


Edit: if you have time, check out this filing from Dr. Faruqui on the issue you think is criminal. The guy has spent 40 years designing utility rate proposals. If you really really really hate reading, just look at the item #4 in his paper.
https://docs.cpuc.ca.gov/PublishedDocs/Efile/G000/M440/K090/440090638.PDF

Let's all agree PG&E sucks; and stop taking out our aggressions on one another.
 
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