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PG&E gives $1000 to BMW owners, but no love for Tesla

Discussion in 'Energy, Environment, and Policy' started by Lloyd, Aug 3, 2015.

  1. FlasherZ

    FlasherZ Sig Model S + Sig Model X + Model 3 Resv

    Jun 21, 2012
    Something tells me that some of the dollars are coming from BMW too. :)
  2. ItsNotAboutTheMoney

    ItsNotAboutTheMoney Active Member

    Jul 12, 2012
    Maybe they did i3 owners because ...

    Utility: Hey i3 owner, can you please wait until 2am to charge?
    i3 owner: sure, I only need a few hours to charge.

    Utility: Hey Tesla owner can you please wait until 2am to charge?
    Tesla owner: sorry, just got back from a road trip and I only have 40A charging. Er, want to pay the $3k and do the circuit upgrade?

    And for the nth time, the "Holy Grail" is not V2G. Clue: the quote about V2G comes from someone at a university, and not someone at a car company or a utility. V2G is something to sell to naive politicians. Cheap batteries for cars also means cheap batteries for utilities, and PEVs' power draw will mean that their potential as a massive controllable demand sink will diminish the value of the additional complexity and uncertainty of V2G.

    Besides, as the article says, car companies are looking to do someone with the end-of-automotive-life batteries. What could a utility do with a bunch of cheap, old batteries? They could _really_ simplify.

    I'm with JB on this one. (As ever).
  3. apacheguy

    apacheguy Sig 255, VIN 320

    Oct 21, 2012
    So Cal
    Maybe not V2G but it would be great to use EVs to soak up excess production during odd hours of the day (ie. grid storage). Utilities should incentivize this and send owners push notifications saying "only $0.03/kWh if you plug in now!".
  4. rabar10

    rabar10 FFE until Model 3

    Dec 3, 2010
    Indianapolis, IN
    Worded differently, that is exactly the same as:
    If the utility can control when connected EVs charge, they can better balance production and demand. Note 'control' doesn't even have to be explicit -- economic incentives for owners to do the same thing (i.e. time-of-use or TOU rates) work too. But adding explicit communication and control opens up a new level of ability, without the added complexity/cost of V2G.
  5. taurusking

    taurusking Member

    Jul 12, 2014
    East Texas
  6. ThosEM

    ThosEM Space Weatherman

    Dec 13, 2013
    Annapolis, MD
    The "additional complexity and uncertainty" of V2G is the basis for Tesla Energy and wall mounted batteries. Why shouldn't I be able to use my huge car battery for this? If I could, maybe Tesla would get some love from PGE, or BGE, since I'm in Maryland. As near as I can tell, the problem is with free supercharging. I'd favor charging local rates at superchargers, for this if no other reason, but it also might help get other companies to build superchargers.
  7. Robert.Boston

    Robert.Boston Model S VIN P01536

    Oct 7, 2011
    Portland, Maine, USA
    Part of the issue, too, is the unlimited miles battery warranty. LiIon batteries wear out with cycling (and other factors), so using your car's battery in V2G reduces its lifetime in your car. Utilities aren't going to pay enough to make that range reduction worthwhile when used on a regular basis.

    OTOH, I lose power a couple of times each year at my summer camp, and it sure would be nice to have the 85kWh in my car's battery available for those rare instances. Outages aren't frequent enough to justify buying a generator.
  8. TexasEV

    TexasEV Active Member

    Jun 5, 2013
    Austin, TX
    Starting charging at 11pm would benefit the utility as much as waiting until 2am. There are very few situations where a Tesla owner can't start charging at 11pm and have more than sufficient charge by the time he leaves home in the morning. Most people don't arrive home with a depleted battery most of the time.
  9. aesculus

    aesculus Still Trying to Figure this All Out

    May 31, 2015
    Northern California
    PG&E Off Peak EV B rate is 11 PM to 7 AM M-F and 7 PM to 7 AM weekends and holidays. Its also not Tiered.

    I see nothing about paying for a higher charge rate either so you can load up on the front side and slow it down before 7AM without penalty.

    Electric Vehicles - Making Sense of the Rates | PG&E

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