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PG&E is finally dropping the NGOM requirement for my 3 Powerwalls setup

charlesj

Active Member
Oct 22, 2019
1,176
248
Monterey, CA
THIS^^^


Can we get that damn NGOM setup removed? I've got so many extra boxes on the side of my house because of this stupid and pointless requirement.
Did you have to get an structural engineer ok for all that extra add on weight on your wall? ;):D

Actually, that is not funny in a way as when I installed my panels, the permitting department wanted an engineer to sign off on the weight
because my trusses are made from 2x4 and tile roof.
My engineer had a good laugh about the lack of basic knowledge at that department. Roofs are calced to support 10 lbs/sq ft of workload material. With panels that only are about 4 lbs / sq ft, that 10 disappears as you cannot put any weight on the panels and I still have 6 lbs
positive support.
 

bkp_duke

Well-Known Member
May 15, 2016
5,205
17,007
San Diego, CA
Did you have to get an structural engineer ok for all that extra add on weight on your wall? ;):D

Actually, that is not funny in a way as when I installed my panels, the permitting department wanted an engineer to sign off on the weight
because my trusses are made from 2x4 and tile roof.
My engineer had a good laugh about the lack of basic knowledge at that department. Roofs are calced to support 10 lbs/sq ft of workload material. With panels that only are about 4 lbs / sq ft, that 10 disappears as you cannot put any weight on the panels and I still have 6 lbs
positive support.

Fortunately, no. And Tesla did pay for the NGOM meter (I don't think they are doing this anymore), but it was such a colossal waste of time, space, and work. I really would love to call SDG&E and tell the to take the meter off. I have a 4th PW2 in order processing, so the time is right, if I have some ammo to throw at the utility.
 

charlesj

Active Member
Oct 22, 2019
1,176
248
Monterey, CA
Fortunately, no. And Tesla did pay for the NGOM meter (I don't think they are doing this anymore), but it was such a colossal waste of time, space, and work. I really would love to call SDG&E and tell the to take the meter off. I have a 4th PW2 in order processing, so the time is right, if I have some ammo to throw at the utility.
With that 4th or even the 3rd PW, any issue with fire code or are yours outside?
How much is the installation cost for that one as everything else is there, if I may ask.
 

bkp_duke

Well-Known Member
May 15, 2016
5,205
17,007
San Diego, CA
With that 4th or even the 3rd PW, any issue with fire code or are yours outside?
How much is the installation cost for that one as everything else is there, if I may ask.

I'm grandfathered under the original fire code provisions (or should be, and the permit for interior installation has been issued).

This is a referral PW2, so there is no cost break out like what you are asking. Because I was pre-wired for a 4th, Tesla did not add any additional cost for installation above the $1000 installation credit included with the referral PW2 (but it did take some arguing).
 

jboy210

Supporting Member
Dec 2, 2016
5,157
3,207
Northern California
Great news, but one question. Does PG&E need to do an inspection?

I thought the process was City/County inspects and sends OK to Tesla. Telsa bills. You pay Tesla, and Tesla sends PTO request to PG&E. PG&E send PTO to you. At least that is what I am expecting with 2 PWs. Perhaps this changes with a 3rd powerwall?
 

RKCRLR

Member
Apr 13, 2020
422
157
Garden Valley, CA
If you install powerwalls and have solar, they will not be set to charge from the grind outside of stormwatch mode, whether you tell the installer you are taking the federal tax credit or not.

There is one instance of someone here who petitioned their utility to allow that, but only 1 that I have seen.

If you consider it for a second, it would be WAAAAAAYYYY to simple to tell tesla (or any other installer) that "Oh no, I am not going to take the tax credit, so wire it up to charge from the grid at my discretion, please", then once you get PTO, apply for the federal tax credit anyway. The federal tax credit is between you and the federal government, so "telling your installer you wont take it" means zero.

If you dont have solar, and buy powerwalls, you are not eligible for the federal tax credit, and since there is no solar, they will wire them to charge from the grid. Failing that, no wiring to charge from the grid without direct proof from your utility that they specifically allow that configuration (which is what the one person who got that done had).
I got the SGIP incentive reserved and got 2 Powerwalls installed. According to the PG&E SGIP website I will need to go to the EV2-A rate plan (I'm currently on E-TOU-A) as one of the SGIP conditions. The EV2-A rate doesn't go to the base rate until midnight. There will be a lot of winter days that my solar won't be able to fully recharge my Powerwalls if I use them to power my home during the high rate times.
I won't be applying for the Federal ITC. It seems like I should be able to use the grid to recharge my Powerwalls under these conditions. I probably wouldn't need to do this if I was allowed to stay on E-TOU-A (or would rarely need to).
 
Last edited:

zanary

Active Member
Jan 25, 2017
1,423
1,566
SF Bay Area (East Bay), CA
Great news, but one question. Does PG&E need to do an inspection?

I thought the process was City/County inspects and sends OK to Tesla. Telsa bills. You pay Tesla, and Tesla sends PTO request to PG&E. PG&E send PTO to you. At least that is what I am expecting with 2 PWs. Perhaps this changes with a 3rd powerwall?

Your correct however once you get more than two the old rules indicate that you need a NGOM which is physically installed by two PG&E engineers who come onsite. This happens after the county inspection and before the PTO or revised PTO.
In my case I’m at the part where Tesla is trying to schedule the final review and installation of the NGOM and that’s where it has been since February.
 
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getakey

Active Member
Jan 28, 2020
1,309
428
95762
I got the SGIP incentive reserved and got 2 Powerwalls installed. According to the PG&E SGIP website I will need to go to the EV2-A rate plan (I'm currently on E-TOU-A) as one of the SGIP conditions. The EV2-A rate doesn't go to the base rate until midnight. There will be a lot of winter days that my solar won't be able to fully recharge my Powerwalls if I use them to power my home during the high rate times.
I won't be applying for the Federal ITC. It seems like I should be able to use the grid to recharge my Powerwalls under these conditions. I probably wouldn't need to do this if I was allowed to stay on E-TOU-A (or would rarely need to).

Why weren't you on the EV1-A already? It has signficantly lower Off Peak rates for EV charging
 

jjrandorin

Moderator, Model 3, Tesla Energy Forums
Nov 28, 2018
9,486
10,654
Riverside Co. CA
I got the SGIP incentive reserved and got 2 Powerwalls installed. According to the PG&E SGIP website I will need to go to the EV2-A rate plan (I'm currently on E-TOU-A) as one of the SGIP conditions. The EV2-A rate doesn't go to the base rate until midnight. There will be a lot of winter days that my solar won't be able to fully recharge my Powerwalls if I use them to power my home during the high rate times.
I won't be applying for the Federal ITC. It seems like I should be able to use the grid to recharge my Powerwalls under these conditions. I probably wouldn't need to do this if I was allowed to stay on E-TOU-A (or would rarely need to).

You can ask /shrug.. Let us know how it goes
 

jboy210

Supporting Member
Dec 2, 2016
5,157
3,207
Northern California
Why weren't you on the EV1-A already? It has signficantly lower Off Peak rates for EV charging

EV-A looks more expensive than TOU to me when I punch it into PG&Es modelling. I don't drive that much. I assume that my charging from the grid will drop close to 0 once we get PTO for the roof + 2 PWs.
 

getakey

Active Member
Jan 28, 2020
1,309
428
95762
I'm on EV1-A. I always charge the EV from Off Peak rates as my PWs are charging during Partial Peak. So I would not want to charge from PW. My partial peak starts at 7am. Peak is 2pm to 9pm during which I run off PW and send solar to grid.
I have not looked at EV2-A that carefully, but I would think you would still want to charge EV from grid during Off Peak
 

aesculus

Still Trying to Figure This All Out
May 31, 2015
4,467
2,537
Northern California
I have not looked at EV2-A that carefully, but I would think you would still want to charge EV from grid during Off Peak
The problem with EV2-A is that much of off peak is until 3PM PT and partial until 4pm, so you have missed much of the opportunity export solar. During good solar production periods I can get to 100% SoC on the PW by 1PM pm and then export extra from that period.

But alas all of us EVA-1 people are on borrowed time. Hopefully they will implement that right to export extra solar anytime you want vs when it's created.
 
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getakey

Active Member
Jan 28, 2020
1,309
428
95762
The problem with EV2-A is that much of off peak is until 3PM PT and partial until 4pm, so you have missed much of the opportunity export solar. During good solar production periods I can get to 100% SoC on the PW by 1PM pm and then export extra from that period.

But alas all of us EVA-1 people are on borrowed time. Hopefully they will implement that right to export extra solar anytime you want vs when it's created.
yes, understood that Peak Period is less on EV2
However, wouldn't you still charge car from grid? If you charge PW at Off Peak rate and then Charge EV from PW, you have gained nothing but lower your charge in the PW
 

zanary

Active Member
Jan 25, 2017
1,423
1,566
SF Bay Area (East Bay), CA
But alas all of us EVA-1 people are on borrowed time. Hopefully they will implement that right to export extra solar anytime you want vs when it's created.

My gut tells me that they are going to eventually move away from NEM, and want you to store all your PV generated electricity for self consumption. What happens to PV only households, no idea, but I feel this is the direction that PG&E wants to move to. EV2 feels like it's the beginning of self generation, self storage, and self consumption.
 

aesculus

Still Trying to Figure This All Out
May 31, 2015
4,467
2,537
Northern California
yes, understood that Peak Period is less on EV2
However, wouldn't you still charge car from grid? If you charge PW at Off Peak rate and then Charge EV from PW, you have gained nothing but lower your charge in the PW
Absolutely you would most likely charge the car from the grid if you were doing it during any off peak time.

But that is sort of the problem with EVA-2. Lots of the off peak time is when you are generating power. So the best you can do is to charge then and fill the PWs. Once the P's are full it's just a wash.
 

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