PG&E is finally dropping the NGOM requirement for my 3 Powerwalls setup

[af88]

For those who got the approval for waiver from PG&E or any other utility.

What was your justification for the waiver. According to Edison "application needs to mention the control system, the control system must be on the CEC’s website for control systems, and the control system mush operate in Non export mode with an open loop response time of 2 secs or less"

Is the Gateway 2 considered the "control system" or the PW2? I see the PW2 on the CEC website but not the GW1or 2. Curious how PG&E is allowing this unless they assume the PW2 is the control system?

https://www.energy.ca.gov/sites/default/files/2020-05/Energy_Storage_System_List_Data_ADA.xlsx (Tesla Battery PW in this list)

 

[MJ_CA_2019]

For those who got the approval for waiver from PG&E or any other utility.

What was your justification for the waiver. According to Edison "application needs to mention the control system, the control system must be on the CEC’s website for control systems, and the control system mush operate in Non export mode with an open loop response time of 2 secs or less"

Is the Gateway 2 considered the "control system" or the PW2? I see the PW2 on the CEC website but not the GW1or 2. Curious how PG&E is allowing this unless they assume the PW2 is the control system?

https://www.energy.ca.gov/sites/default/files/2020-05/Energy_Storage_System_List_Data_ADA.xlsx (Tesla Battery PW in this list)

I don't have the answer to your actual question here, but wanted to say I have the Backup Gateway (not Gateway 2) and was approved without the NGOM meter (3 Powerwall 2 install).

 

[SMAlset]

I maybe wrong here but I thought someone from southern Calif (maybe earlier in this thread?) was trying to get a waiver for the NGOM and their utility wanted certification on the GW2 I think. While PG&E already had it listed on their approved site, the utility down south did not (yet) and I seem to recall that they wouldn’t rely on other utilities approved list for the testing info.

We got our NGOM waiver but have PG&E. Our inverter, PWs and GW2 were tested as a system if I recall when I checked out the very long list of approved devices. Notations were made regarding the testing lab used. I would think the certification results should be able to be relied upon by any utility. But I guess not. Believe the soCal guy who asked gave up because he wanted PTO.

 

[af88]

Do you have the link on PG&E site for the GW2 and PW2. It might be useful to send that to Edison.

I spoke to that person, yes they did give up but that was a while back.

 

[SMAlset]

Do you have the link on PG&E site for the GW2 and PW2. It might be useful to send that to Edison.

I spoke to that person, yes they did give up but that was a while back.

don’t know if this will be helpful but see my post #50-51 ( PG&E is finally dropping the NGOM requirement for my 3 Powerwalls setup )
The list I saw the info on was published some time ago and will have been updated since then. As I recall it was on a lengthy spreadsheet I had to download and the column headings weren’t locked in place as you went through the entries so was a bit of a pain.

 

[af88]

I see the pw2 on cec site but do you have anything specific on the pg&e website?

 

[SMAlset]

@af88 As far as PG&E, we were fortunate enough to email someone that @heytae had spoken to about his NGOM waiver and that person was able to look at our plans and verify that a waiver could be granted for our installation. I would think SCE could look up your components on the CES site for you to see if you'd qualify for a waiver.

However I think the relevant info is on this spreadsheet for "application needs to mention the control system, the control system must be on the CEC’s website for control systems, and the control system must operate in Non export mode with an open loop response time of 2 secs or less"
Inverter and Energy Storage System PCS List
There's 2 Tesla Powerwalls listed (along with Gateway 1 or Gateway 2), Gateway 2 when installed indicates "1.76 seconds is applicable when used with Tesla Gateway 2". The PCS Information Listing Date is 2/22/21. PCS (power control system). The column heading for Import Only Mode indicates Y (yes, so it would operate on a non-export mode).

You might also need to refer to these other spreadsheets for different components:
Energy_Storage_System_List_Data_ADA
Grid Support Inverter List- Full Data (I see Solar Edge and Tesla listed, not sure what unit you have).
PV Module List - Full Data (assume you have Tesla's version of the Hanwha Q-Cells Q.Peak Duo Blk-G6+/SC 340 panels?) (I have thought the SC designation stood for SolarCity as they are designed specifically for Tesla installs mounted with their ZEP system)

Here's the website for the California Energy Commission's Solar Equipment Lists: Solar Equipment Lists .

Can't really be of more help. The right person at SCE to talk to is probably an Interconnection Manager with their Electric Generation Interconnection department (at least it was at PG&E). They needed some project number info from Tesla in order to access our project in their system which Tesla provided to them. From there it went pretty fast. Good luck. This stuff is like a maze to work through from the average customer's perspective.

 

[af88]

Thanks a lot, I'm waiting for SCE to call me back. I agree all the equipment is on the CEC list but I'm not sure if they themselves are aware. I know for a fact my solar company was not aware of this stuff being certified so it is a learning lesson for all really. Goal is just to expedite the project as I was told it take up to 2 months for a meter to get installed.

 

[NathanielHrnblwr]

I may get another PW if SDG&E drops the NGOM requirement.

 

[bkp_duke]

I may get another PW if SDG&E drops the NGOM requirement.

I'm 99.99% certain it is already gone. CPUC, not SDG&E, had the NGOM requirement in place. I have an NGOM, due to being installed in 2017 (it's on my radar to "pick a fight" to get it removed this year), but my neighbors getting 4 PW2s all have not had to have an NGOM put in place, and when Tesla Energy came and installed my 4th PW2 last year, they said they were not having to get them installed anymore either.

 

[bkp_duke]

I'm 99.99% certain it is already gone. CPUC, not SDG&E, had the NGOM requirement in place. I have an NGOM, due to being installed in 2017 (it's on my radar to "pick a fight" to get it removed this year), but my neighbors getting 4 PW2s all have not had to have an NGOM put in place, and when Tesla Energy came and installed my 4th PW2 last year, they said they were not having to get them installed anymore either.

Just as an update to this.

I was on the phone with SDG&E today (painful), asking about removal of my NGOM since about 10 neighbors have had 4xPW2 systems installed here in the last 6 months. The specialist (and this was the supervisor in charge) was adamant that the NGOM requirement was still in place. Despite a major solar installer here in the area did all 10 of these installs, all without NGOMs. He was convinced enough that he was asking me to give addresses of all the installs so that he could follow up (I declined, I'm not that kind of neighbor).

All I could find in the latest CPUC document regarding this was the following:
https://docs.cpuc.ca.gov/PublishedDocs/Published/G000/M340/K748/340748922.PDF

Page 41:
"Within 30 days upon date of issuance of this decision, the utilities are directed to submit Tier 2 Advice Letters proposing the necessary modifications to their NEM tariffs to make the changes described in Tariff Modernization Problem 2, Proposal 2 (removing the storage sizing limit for large NEM-paired storage and maintaining existing metering requirements)."

Page 102, Section 25 also touches on this, as well as Page 109, Sections 22 and 23. And page 120, Section 6.


TL;DR - SDG&E is saying NGOMs are required for PW2 installs of 3 unit or more. Solar installers are saying they are not. I don't know.