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PG&E Letter - Paired Storage Billing Update

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It changes month to month. I think it may account for weather in addition to season.
April:
upload_2019-5-30_8-35-39.png

May:
upload_2019-5-30_8-36-15.png
 
I just downloaded my new black and white bill, the first one on the new True-Up cycle. They have changed the heading title from "NEMMT ACCOUNT" to "NEM-PAIRED STORAGE ACCOUNT". There is also a new table shown below to directly address the subject of this letter, Generation Eligible for Credit.

View attachment 413540

I ran the report on Enphase Enlighten for the billing period and they report 607kWh of actual raw generation. Obviously, I have self-consumed the difference between the 607kWh generated and the 282kWh exported.
Wow ... I tried looking for mine, and once again, they divide and conquer us so we have no idea how to keep them responsible for their actions:
Screen Shot 2019-06-01 at 17.02.08.png
Screen Shot 2019-06-01 at 17.03.57.png
Screen Shot 2019-06-01 at 17.05.10.png

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This is the first time I knew my electric utility provider changed. Gee, don't you think they could have told us that? We have new rates, and we have no choice and no warning? Furthermore, they state that they don't use gas from Moss Landing, but that makes me wonder if all their "renewable" sources are as clean as the modern gas electric generators at Moss Landing, since some of the "renewable" sources are not clean. I can hope that they have been paying attention to local needs to handle our microclimates around our counties and our solar panel and battery mix, so I'm skeptical and optimistic at the same time. I wonder also if they are part of the big battery being installed in Moss Landing, or will be kept out of that. So many questions.

All I can see about my NEM is: "Transferred to [True-Up] NEM Charges Before Taxes: -19.63", and "Your [True-Up] NEM Charges Before TaxesA isA $19.63".

They have been sending a separate paper mail detail of battery + solar + energy accounting monthly; I'll have to pour through that when it comes to see if the NEM stuff is caught up in there.

Addendum 1: I see they explain it a bit in Billing - MBCP where they show examples of how they see it getting broken down for electricity using customers.

Addendum 2: Many questions seem answered here: Home - MBCP

Screen Shot 2019-06-01 at 17.45.16.png Screen Shot 2019-06-01 at 17.45.20.png Screen Shot 2019-06-01 at 17.45.25.png Screen Shot 2019-06-01 at 17.45.29.png Screen Shot 2019-06-01 at 17.45.36.png Screen Shot 2019-06-01 at 17.45.52.png Screen Shot 2019-06-01 at 17.46.21.png

Addendum 3: I just checked: there was no mention of my new power provider on my previous statement; the above is my first notice. As it stands, I have no idea what my true-up period is now, and where to look it up, except that it may be in the big paper printout.

P.S., a few months ago our gas heating charges were $176. I have two HVAC people coming this week to study our home for possible heating upgrades, including various heat pump solutions.
 
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The State made the CCA programs default to enrolling all accounts in the area involved. They should have sent multiple postcards or other communication before your automatic enrollment. I know SVCE did an extensive consumer education program before they started enrolling people.
 
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Ulmo,

See this link: FAQs – CalCCA

You can opt-out if you want to stay with your utility.
Ok, I see. Apparently, we still can't select our energy provider unless we generate ourselves, but have a choice to either use PG&E or a regional government run facility to purchase electricity, but must use PG&E to tap the grid.

Now we need competition in the grid. PG&E sucks, because it likes dragging its feet, keeping all of its lines above ground instead of undergrounding them, and that has caused many mass-death mass-pollution mass-deforestation fires already, and the current grid is not even a fraction of enough for the next few decades (we're estimating at least 5x the amount of electricity being used in the future with EV, cyborganic computer AI, and electric heating). We need competitive grid services, too, such as smart grid, to start trading our battery and solar capacities in smart ways, and to make use of our energy sinks more appropriately (such as electric car chargers, hot water tanks and elements, dryer element triggers, and pool pumps). (With today's inverter heat pumps, turning the heat pumps off in a grid services manner doesn't make sense any more, since the inverter heat pumps already tune themselves to the needs of the people, not to the grid.)

When some of those features start coming on line, I can either go to my regional electricity purchaser that I've been automatically enrolled in if they are able to operate those smart grid systems with me, or if they can't or if PG&E does it better, I can unenroll in the regional electricity purchaser and use PG&E, depending on which one will start allowing smart grid services with our batteries and solar panels in the best manner.

Furthermore, the FAQ explains that we are still using the gas plants in Moss Landing because we are still using one grid; the electricity purchasing decisions are made through purchasing aggregation, not through grid isolation. That also means we will use the great new big battery in Moss Landing, which will connect to our local grid. The FAQ says "trust us, we're not lying when we say we've aggregated the purchases to be all of a certain type; we're not providing you a link to any documents you can reconcile to verify we haven't cheated"; I can see fraud being done there easily, such as fractional reserve banking loaning out our deposits, but this time for magical electrons. With the track record of those people, I'd be surprised if they didn't conduct that fraud, and their lack of easy documentation to show their integrity indicates their intent.
 
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Wow ... I tried looking for mine, and once again, they divide and conquer us so we have no idea how to keep them responsible for their actions:
View attachment 414571 View attachment 414574 View attachment 414576
===============================

This is the first time I knew my electric utility provider changed. Gee, don't you think they could have told us that? We have new rates, and we have no choice and no warning? Furthermore, they state that they don't use gas from Moss Landing, but that makes me wonder if all their "renewable" sources are as clean as the modern gas electric generators at Moss Landing, since some of the "renewable" sources are not clean. I can hope that they have been paying attention to local needs to handle our microclimates around our counties and our solar panel and battery mix, so I'm skeptical and optimistic at the same time. I wonder also if they are part of the big battery being installed in Moss Landing, or will be kept out of that. So many questions.

All I can see about my NEM is: "Transferred to [True-Up] NEM Charges Before Taxes: -19.63", and "Your [True-Up] NEM Charges Before TaxesA isA $19.63".

They have been sending a separate paper mail detail of battery + solar + energy accounting monthly; I'll have to pour through that when it comes to see if the NEM stuff is caught up in there.

Addendum 1: I see they explain it a bit in Billing - MBCP where they show examples of how they see it getting broken down for electricity using customers.

Addendum 2: Many questions seem answered here: Home - MBCP

View attachment 414589 View attachment 414597 View attachment 414595 View attachment 414594 View attachment 414593 View attachment 414592 View attachment 414590

Addendum 3: I just checked: there was no mention of my new power provider on my previous statement; the above is my first notice. As it stands, I have no idea what my true-up period is now, and where to look it up, except that it may be in the big paper printout.

P.S., a few months ago our gas heating charges were $176. I have two HVAC people coming this week to study our home for possible heating upgrades, including various heat pump solutions.

Hi @Ulmo, thanks very much for your early posts, photos, and home website describing your Powerwall install. They were invaluable to me. I am right on the SC/SC boundary on SC side (yes your side) and here are some TMC posts on the MBCP CCA. I received 3 postcards (none packaged with the PG&E bill). I indiscriminately discarded the first 2, but because I was picking up my Mom’s mail, I saw hers, notified her, rescued the first two from my recycle bin, and later received the 3rd postcard. She had discarded the earlier notifications as well. We both opted out for now based on various reasons described below. You are certainly not an outlier (in this regard, anyway). :)

I did something similar. Have converted everything off of propane to electric: clothes dryer, induction cooktop, water heater, heat pump (and keeping propane furnace backup disabled when possible), and of course EV’s: first 2011 LEAF, then 2013 RAV4 and eventually 2018 Model 3. (Plus occasional charging of my girlfriend’s RAV4 and now her Model 3.) Eliminated my propane usage and everything is still covered by my solar installation.

I was able to switch my PG&E baseline to “all electric” or rather “electric heating” (I think it was called) after getting the heat pump a few years ago. I’m still on E-6 but was recently automatically switched to Monterey Bay Community Power through that CCA (Community Choice Aggregation) system. That unfortunately reset my net metering true-up and hit me with a $300+ bill in the middle of winter that will never get counted towards my net metering – all other years I’ve had a slight positive true-up (never had to pay).

(As an aside, we’ve probably met at the old LEAF meetups in the south bay. I certainly recognize your username from the LEAF forum.)

I called them, for my Mom, and got switched over without any hassle. They just want to see a permanently installed electric heat source. I also learned that if you have building connected to separate electric meter but without ANY heat source and without any hookup to gas/propane (like a barn, workshop, etc.), only electric hookup, they will not allow that to be on “all-electric” and it defaults to the smaller electric baseline as if it were gas heated. I argued about that but they would not change it.



That may be true if you buy natural gas from PG&E, but I can confirm not true for those of us in remote locations with only propane as optional combustible gas source.



I was lucky to not throw out the small postcard announcing the default opt-in for CCA MBCP. I read the documents and looked at their spartan site, read that their CEO had some prior compensation controversy, and called them up to ask a bunch of questions. The person I talked to was nice but couldn’t answer most of my questions, saying that they were brand new and learning some of the details themselves. I was concerned about grandfathering rules, NEM1, true-up, future rate eligibility (since only current rates tied to PG&E), etc. The one thing I learned for sure is they said I would get a forced true-up on some boundary they specified, different than my normal date. The only benefit I saw, besides getting power from someone else besides PG&E, was that they pay a much higher rate than PG&E’s wholesale rate for excess generation beyond zero true-up threshold. I decided it was safer to proactively opt-out at the time and let others test it out and get feedback from them (and you). I was worried about the cost of premature true-up and also future plans/rates since I was trying to get Powerwall installation finished. Let me know how it worked out for you in terms of CCA rebate and bulk buyback of surplus generation. You can DM me if you want. Thanks!

Hope to share my installation here soon.
 
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I just wanted to follow up on this thread because I happened to be flipping through the NEM Tariff and found this section which explains the production estimation methodology (CSI-EPBB calculator). If they find you are exporting more than you should, they will deduct the excess kWh from your Peak period exports first, just for maximum effect.

Taken from Sheet 28 of the NEM Tariff revised Feb 22, 2017. Similar language appears in the NEM2 Tariff on sheet 30.

NEM Tariff-Billing for NEM Paired Storage.jpg


So, it appears that it took more than 2 years for them to implement this in the billing system to enforce this provision.
 
Hmm.... I just switched to the TOU plan from NEM, and am having two Powerwall units installed next Tuesday.
I‘m also about to replace a set of old / failing solar panels with new ones...

System specs: I have 52 165W panels installed in 2003, 8 of which I replaced in 2017 with 265W, and they feed four SMA Sunnyboy inverters, 2 each of 1800W and 2500W output.

On a sunny day my „nameplate“ rated 9.6KW system is currently producing about 41KWH. I expect it‘s really only a (reality) 6KWH system right now. By upgrading 32x165W panels (which I estimate are operating at 50-63% capacity) to 24x300W panels, I‘m hoping to get my panel output up to 10KWH (PTC) system.

Does this mean that PG&E is saying that they will accept no net power generation, if I have Powerwall units installed?

I can‘t tell if this means that my panel upgrade will be a bad idea, since PG&E will have „aged“ my old system somehow and won‘t let me feed back to the grid,
- or -
If it means I should not install the PowerWall since with just 2 units (~13KWH capacity?) I will be dumping a ton of power into the ground.

Any thoughts, Powerwall owners?

Dave
what happened? from what I understand, if anyone wants to update, upgrade, etc their PV and it will be great than what it was, and agreed to with PGE, one has to start the application process again to see if one can get approval before one makes any changes.
 
I'm also curious if Powerwall homeowners are actually able to do the things that PG&E is trying so hard to protect their monopoly interests.

So the Powerwalls are a certified Power Control System for NEM Paired Storage:
Certified Power Control Systems List — CA Solar & Storage Association

I'm guessing for people with both solar and Powerwalls, the PW's are set up as "Solar-Only Charging mode"? Have people found an easy way to get their PWs to discharge to the grid during peak times to bank juicy NEM credits after the sun has set?
 
I'm also curious if Powerwall homeowners are actually able to do the things that PG&E is trying so hard to protect their monopoly interests.

So the Powerwalls are a certified Power Control System for NEM Paired Storage:
Certified Power Control Systems List — CA Solar & Storage Association

I'm guessing for people with both solar and Powerwalls, the PW's are set up as "Solar-Only Charging mode"? Have people found an easy way to get their PWs to discharge to the grid during peak times to bank juicy NEM credits after the sun has set?
I have never heard someone able to discharge their PW back to the grid, but who knows. I can see why this is pushing it!!
I just want to be able to charge my PW's from the grid in the winter when my solar is basically nothing. Otherwise I will need to leave in backup only mode since one of the key reasons to get is to have power when I lose power, let I did yesterday, will do tomorrow, and next week at a minimum
 
I'm also curious if Powerwall homeowners are actually able to do the things that PG&E is trying so hard to protect their monopoly interests.

So the Powerwalls are a certified Power Control System for NEM Paired Storage:
Certified Power Control Systems List — CA Solar & Storage Association

I'm guessing for people with both solar and Powerwalls, the PW's are set up as "Solar-Only Charging mode"? Have people found an easy way to get their PWs to discharge to the grid during peak times to bank juicy NEM credits after the sun has set?
Now I am totally confused by what that doc states. Seems to be they support PW discharge to grid if solar charged. And if no export of PW's one can charged PW's from grid. What is going on?
 
Have people found an easy way to get their PWs to discharge to the grid during peak times to bank juicy NEM credits after the sun has set?
I agree with @getakey that my first priority is to eliminate drawing grid power after the sun sets. My second priority is to self consume as much of the power generated by my system I am on NEM 2.0 and try to keep my NBCs to no more than my Minimum Delivery Charges.
I have a hybrid inverter and no Powerwall so I don't have the constraints imposed by SGIP funding but I see deminishing returns from trying to sell power beyond when the sun has set. I could probably figure out how to get my inverter to do that but the challenge for me is to optimize charging my Teslas after the batteries powering my hybrid inverter are charged.
 
Yeah, all of us here on TMC seem to have a common goal of using the PW's as a means to bank their own solar production for use during peak times.

A second nice-to-have is the ability to take grid power when there ARE short days or cloudcover to build reserves using off-peak power.

But PG&E's priority is to make sure they don't have homeowners take advantage of their grid.

The CALSSA page says that a Powerwall in "Solar-Only Charging mode" allows the customer to export stored power onto the grid and receive NEM credits for that power.

This is what PG&E is worried about. They think someone's going to install lots of generation equipment, and grid export a ton of energies (suds) back at PG&E during peak time to take peak NEM credits.

But, as far as I'm aware, the Powerwall doesn't support that functionality. I don't think anyone at TMC has their Powerwalls grid-exporting.
 
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Yeah, all of us here on TMC seem to have a common goal of using the PW's as a means to bank their own solar production for use during peak times.

A second nice-to-have is the ability to take grid power when there is short days or cloudcover to build reserves using off-peak power.

But PG&E's priority is to make sure they don't have homeowners take advantage of their grid.

The CALSSA page says that a Powerwall in "Solar-Only Charging mode" allows the customer to export stored power onto the grid and receive NEM credits for that power.

This is what PG&E is worried about. They think someone's going to install lots of generation equipment, and grid export a ton of energies (suds) back at PG&E during peak time to take peak NEM credits.

But, as far as I'm aware, the Powerwall doesn't support that functionality. I don't think anyone at TMC has their Powerwalls grid-exporting.

It would be hard to export PW power to grid with normal configurations with a reasonable reserve set. In winter, I barely make it through Peak from PWs albeit I have my Reserve set high in the winter. In summer, with a much lower Reserve, I cannot always make it through Peak on hot (100+) days. My peak is 2 to 9. So there isn't really much if any excess to export.
 
It would be hard to export PW power to grid with normal configurations with a reasonable reserve set. In winter, I barely make it through Peak from PWs albeit I have my Reserve set high in the winter. In summer, with a much lower Reserve, I cannot always make it through Peak on hot (100+) days. My peak is 2 to 9. So there isn't really much if any excess to export.

I agree that it'd be tough for a normal PV + ESS customer to take advantage of exporting to the grid for extra NEM credits. But PG&E isn't normal.

I'm wondering if it's actually possible for someone to grid-export at all using Powerwalls that are configured correctly.

PG&E is worried someone is going to generate a bunch of excess power (like sneakily add a bunch more panels) or somehow charge PWs using off-peak time. Then grid export that excess energy during peak time and bank juicy NEM credits.
 
I agree that it'd be tough for a normal PV + ESS customer to take advantage of exporting to the grid for extra NEM credits. But PG&E isn't normal.

I'm wondering if it's actually possible for someone to grid-export at all using Powerwalls that are configured correctly.

PG&E is worried someone is going to generate a bunch of excess power (like sneakily add a bunch more panels) or somehow charge PWs using off-peak time. Then grid export that excess energy during peak time and bank juicy NEM credits.
Yep, one bad apple spoils for everyone. I have heard of folks adding panels and not following the process to recertify this is okay with PGE. But as the one set of post state, even though its a mistake, PGE is not giving the person credit over what is recorded as max generation approval.

This all makes sense, but not what is happening to you. What is behind this is what I am interested in. Since, I want to avoid this if possible.
 
I'm wondering if it's actually possible for someone to grid-export at all using Powerwalls that are configured correctly.

No. From the Powerwall 2 Installation manual:

NOTE: The Tesla Powerwall system supports ESS Operating Mode of Import Only, where it will not export active power from the battery to the Area EPS. The installer and the customer can select three standard modes of operation for the Powerwall: Backup, Solar Self-Powered, and Time of Use. All three of the modes of operations operate within the constraint of the Import Only ESS Operating Mode.