PG&E NBC / kWh going up every month?

[h2ofun]

Joking aside, if your NBCs were wiped out from whole credit, then you generated way more than you used which increases your ROI substantially. For PG&E, anything less than $120 net positive usage will essentially be wasted.

Yea, I know. For this winter, first it was SO mild, and I kept the house cool since I had no idea what would happen. Next winter I will just keep the house warm to whatever the wife wants, which still may be "cool", and if I have to pay, so be it.

Since I bought none of this stuff with ROI thoughts, it is just a game. Meaning, when I put my house up for sale, I can tell buyers it can basically be off grid. All the folks who have seen my setup have said they have never seen a home with so much flexibility. Worth the money? All I need is one with deep pockets.

 

[sorka]

Yea, I know. For this winter, first it was SO mild, and I kept the house cool since I had no idea what would happen. Next winter I will just keep the house warm to whatever the wife wants, which still may be "cool", and if I have to pay, so be it.

Since I bought none of this stuff with ROI thoughts, it is just a game. Meaning, when I put my house up for sale, I can tell buyers it can basically be off grid. All the folks who have seen my setup have said they have never seen a home with so much flexibility. Worth the money? All I need is one with deep pockets.

An excess might be harder to maintain when you have to power the electric fence to keep out TWD when dystopia arrives

 

[getakey]

The rates are the lowest in the morning when your Powerwalls need to be charged from the peak/night discharge. Sending the solar to the house load first and then to the Powerwall reduces the kWh that are imported and subject to NBCs.

My system is generating 40-50 kWh per day right now and I am using 10-15kWh per day. During the 4:00-9:00pm peak period my Powerwalls discharge 2-4 kWh that needs to be replaced by solar the next day. While the Powerwalls are charging, I am importing kWh from the grid that are subject to NBCs. If the solar went to the house load first and then to the Powerwalls then I would avoid the NBCs and save additional costs.

I just don't see how that would change anything. Your usage would be the same whether PWs charged in the morning or later.

 

[Redhill_qik]

Joking aside, if your NBCs were wiped out from whole credit, then you generated way more than you used which increases your ROI substantially. For PG&E, anything less than $120 net positive usage will essentially be wasted.

Which is why if you have a local Community Choice Aggregator option for the generation component like Silicon Valley Clean Energy, East Bay Community Energy or San Jose Clean Energy you want to join as they pay higher rates for the annual surplus. SVCE that I am with pays their retail rates based on Winter/Summer TOU rates tied to the surplus generation, plus another $0.008 if you are opt in to the GreenPrime 100% solar/wind. In the winter period this has been $0.065 to $0.075/kWh. It isn't the PG&E retail generation rates of $0.100 to $0.163/kWh, but it is definitely better than $0.02-0.03/kWh.

 

[getakey]

I posted this in another thread. What are the NBCs that were previously Billed?

 

[Redhill_qik]

I just don't see how that would change anything. Your usage would be the same whether PWs charged in the morning or later.

It isn't the time when the PWs are charging, it is that they charge with 100% of the solar generation which requires that the house to import energy from the grid during that time. I will eventually export that same amount back to the grid, but the imported energy is subject to the NBC amounts and that is a cost that could be avoided by allowing the house load to have priority for the solar generation then the PW charging to avoid the import.

 

[Redhill_qik]

I posted this in another thread. What are the NBCs that were previously Billed?

The NBC charges are the PPP/Public Purpose ($123.46), ND/Nuclear ($9.00), DWR/Wildfire ($53.05), and OCF/Competition ($6.36) = $191.87.

Edit: Corrected labels for DWR and OCF

 

[getakey]

The NBC charges are the PPP/Public Purpose ($123.46), ND/Nuclear ($9.00), OCF/Wildfire ($6.36) and CTC/Competition ($0.00) = $138.82.

where do you see $138.82?

I'm talking about the $121.54.

 

[sorka]

where do you see $138.82?

I'm talking about the $121.54.

I thought it was $119.92.

 

[getakey]

It isn't the time when the PWs are charging, it is that they charge with 100% of the solar generation which requires that the house to import energy from the grid during that time. I will eventually export that same amount back to the grid, but the imported energy is subject to the NBC amounts and that is a cost that could be avoided by allowing the house load to have priority for the solar generation then the PW charging to avoid the import.

Are you saying that you can 100% power house and charge PWs to 100% before Peak starts? Why not go on Self-powered mode?

 

[Redhill_qik]

where do you see $138.82?

I'm talking about the $121.54.

The negative $121.54 is for NEM 1:1 reversal for the 682 kWh that you exported to the grid. The NBCs only apply to the 520 kWh that you imported from the grid.

 

[Redhill_qik]

Are you saying that you can 100% power house and charge PWs to 100% before Peak starts? Why not go on Self-powered mode?

Because I don't want the Powerwalls to discharge outside of the peak time. Why? first because deeper discharge/charge cycles may cause earlier failure or efficiency loss, and second because of the recharge efficiency.

 

[getakey]

The negative $121.54 is for NEM 1:1 reversal for the 682 kWh that you exported to the grid. The NBCs only apply to the 520 kWh that you imported from the grid.

Thanks - you are teaching me stuff here.
So does that 682 and 520 jive with this summary?

 

[h2ofun]

Are you saying that you can 100% power house and charge PWs to 100% before Peak starts? Why not go on Self-powered mode?

I have been doing this for many weeks now. Winter, probably not. When I turn on AC, shall see. My PWs charge to 100% about noon, so 3 hours before I set my peak in balanced

 

[Redhill_qik]

Thanks - you are teaching me stuff here.
So does that 682 and 520 jive with this summary?

I haven't gone through an annual True-Up, so I'm a bit confused about the first image you posted that was labelled "True-Up Adjustment". The total of the calculated NBCs (PPP+ND+DWR+OCF) from that table is $191.87 which matches with the $191.87 for NBCs from the "True-Up History" image. You exported to the grid 8,910 kWh and imported 9,440 kWh for a net import of 530 kWh. I do not understand why the DIST is listed as -682 kWh and the NBC is 520 kWh unless they were the numbers from your period that ended on 4/21 and just carried over to the adjustment table by accident.

I think they $121.54 credit in the DIST line are the monthly minimum charges that you paid over the year resulting in a net bill of $70.33 ($191.87 - $121.54).

While you imported more than you exported, the imports must have been at a lower rate than your exports, so you don't have any extra owed.

 

[h2ofun]

I haven't gone through an annual True-Up, so I'm a bit confused about the first image you posted that was labelled "True-Up Adjustment". The total of the calculated NBCs (PPP+ND+DWR+OCF) from that table is $191.87 which matches with the $191.87 for NBCs from the "True-Up History" image. You exported to the grid 8,910 kWh and imported 9,440 kWh for a net import of 530 kWh. I do not understand why the DIST is listed as -682 kWh and the NBC is 520 kWh unless they were the numbers from your period that ended on 4/21 and just carried over to the adjustment table by accident.

I think they $121.54 credit in the DIST line are the monthly minimum charges that you paid over the year resulting in a net bill of $70.33 ($191.87 - $121.54).

While you imported more than you exported, the imports must have been at a lower rate than your exports, so you don't have any extra owed.

Yep, not about the KWH, its when you put and took and what the prices were

 

[miimura]

The rates are the lowest in the morning when your Powerwalls need to be charged from the peak/night discharge. Sending the solar to the house load first and then to the Powerwall reduces the kWh that are imported and subject to NBCs.

My system is generating 40-50 kWh per day right now and I am using 10-15kWh per day. During the 4:00-9:00pm peak period my Powerwalls discharge 2-4 kWh that needs to be replaced by solar the next day. While the Powerwalls are charging, I am importing kWh from the grid that are subject to NBCs. If the solar went to the house load first and then to the Powerwalls then I would avoid the NBCs and save additional costs.

Now that my solar system is generating more than my 3pm-midnight usage, it is charging from Surplus Solar in Balanced Mode. It is even discharging in the morning, which kind of irks me a little.

 

[h2ofun]

Now that my solar system is generating more than my 3pm-midnight usage, it is charging from Surplus Solar in Balanced Mode. It is even discharging in the morning, which kind of irks me a little.

View attachment 658480

Why, mine balanced. Peak 3pm to 1am. I get up at 4am and the batteries are still charging the house. I only at the moment am using about 5% grid to 95% off grid. Why would I want to use grid power when my batteries can basically handle it 24 hours a day?

 

[miimura]

Why, mine balanced. Peak 3pm to 1am. I get up at 4am and the batteries are still charging the house. I only at the moment am using about 5% grid to 95% off grid. Why would I want to use grid power when my batteries can basically handle it 24 hours a day?

If you have so much generation, you should just use Self Powered instead of TBC. My solar is tiny, so I really don't mind paying for Off-Peak electricity. I certainly don't want to charge my car during Off-Peak from battery.

Edit: maybe not Self Powered if you want to get max Peak credits 4-9pm. Just drop the Off-Peak period definition when you have so much solar.

 

[h2ofun]

If you have so much generation, you should just use Self Powered instead of TBC. My solar is tiny, so I really don't mind paying for Off-Peak electricity. I certainly don't want to charge my car during Off-Peak from battery.

Edit: maybe not Self Powered if you want to get max Peak credits 4-9pm. Just drop the Off-Peak period definition when you have so much solar.

I have thought about that, but since I want to pump the max solar back during peak, what would be the advantage of not doing this? I need to make a bank for the winter, like I did this year