before i had solar i wrote a tool to try to understand the different TOU rates. recently i exhumed it and brought it up to date to take into account my solar generation. it shows that EV2A is a real lose for me, and E-TOU-A would cost me around $400 less per year vs EV2A based on my usage patterns. the good news is that PGE's own tool correlates with mine, so if you have enough history i think you can trust what PGE's tool says about how much each plan would cost.
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PG&E Rate Schedules: "Home Charging" (EV2-A) Goes Live vs. Others
- Thread starter SoundDaTrumpet
- Start date
before i had solar i wrote a tool to try to understand the different TOU rates. recently i exhumed it and brought it up to date to take into account my solar generation. it shows that EV2A is a real lose for me, and E-TOU-A would cost me around $400 less per year vs EV2A based on my usage patterns. the good news is that PGE's own tool correlates with mine, so if you have enough history i think you can trust what PGE's tool says about how much each plan would cost.
woodisgood
Optimustic Pessimist
Hmm, still haven't been switched, billing cycle ended on the 25th. It was supposed to be November according to all the letters I received.
My billing cycle ended on November 17th and my statement was issued on the November 25th. I just checked and the Rate Comparison tool now shows that I'm on EV2-A. The tool no longer shows the EV-A rate. That means that I have been giving away what precious little PW energy I have from 2pm-4pm and not getting any Peak credits for it.
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woodisgood
Optimustic Pessimist
That stinks. But good to know that’s where it shows up when you’re switched. I’ve been checking the Rate Comparison tool and it still shows EV-A.
Sherlo
Member
Same here. Last time I check a couple weeks ago it still showed EV-A and as of this morning have been switched. Gave away credits...bummer.
Ulmo
Active Member
Where does it say that? I'm looking in both PG&E Toolkit and PGE.Com statements. Edit: I found it; see below.
In my statement it says:
"10/11/2019 - 11/11/2019" (I presume Oct 11 - Nov 11)
"Rate Schedule: NEM2MT
Rate Description: Net Energy Metering Multiple Tariff"
It also says "2018 Vintaged Power Charge Indifference Adjustment".
I sleuthed out the PG&E Rate Comparison Tool of which you speak. Apparently, I thought it was useless before and forgot about it. It now says this:
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aesculus
Still Trying to Figure This All Out
This is mine:
The black and white bill that has all the excruciating detail about the Powerwall billing has a header that looks like this now:
I expect that my next bill will say "EV2A/NEM-PS". There have been and still are references to NEM-MT in my account.
However, my blue bill says:
"Rate Schedule: NEMS
Rate Description: Net Energy Metering Service
Total PG&E Electric Delivery Charges: $10.19
2017 Vintaged Power Charge Indifference Adjustment".
Their website can be glitchy, it did that for me this morning, but I refreshed the page a minute later and the Rate Comparison Tool showed up fine.
They swapped me over to EV2 at the beginning of my new bill cycle in November. It shows as the highest cost plan ($850 a year vs $600 on E-TOU) even E1 is less ($645). Last year my NEM true-up was $62. I just switched over from a plug-in hybrid to a M3 SR+, so I believe my costs would be higher on E-TOU due to the significant change in charging from ~20 miles to whatever I end up using as my commute is between 30-46 miles a day.
That is the weakness of the Rate Comparison tool - it can only calculate based on your historical usage and cannot account for changes in your usage pattern.
For folks with free charging at work... do you use PG&E's EV-* plan?
I did the math yesterday... before adding EV charging, I was well head under the E1 plan (.22/kwh any time), vs. an EV2 plan (time-of-day variable).
After EV-charging - if I only charge at home during weekends (20kwh per wkend: ~80mi range on M3 LR), I would still come out ahead paying the E1 rate. It's only when I add an additional 25kwh per wkend, which puts me into tier-2 of the E1 rate (@ .28c/kwh), that I'm paying extra $4 - $5 for the charging wkend days (~$20/mo more).
Anyone with similar experience?
I did the math yesterday... before adding EV charging, I was well head under the E1 plan (.22/kwh any time), vs. an EV2 plan (time-of-day variable).
After EV-charging - if I only charge at home during weekends (20kwh per wkend: ~80mi range on M3 LR), I would still come out ahead paying the E1 rate. It's only when I add an additional 25kwh per wkend, which puts me into tier-2 of the E1 rate (@ .28c/kwh), that I'm paying extra $4 - $5 for the charging wkend days (~$20/mo more).
Anyone with similar experience?
Thats why we have net metering. Feast (summer) and famine (winter) average out.
What I am wondering about is:
- EV-A plan I only was able to enjoy for about 5 years, now being forced into EV-A2, how long until the next forced change?
- WIll they adjust components of the EV-A2 rates to our disadvantage in the coming years or are they locked in for some time? How long?
Nobody knows. We are at the mercy of what PG&E can convince the CPUC to let through. Of course, Newsom is making noises about taking over PG&E and making it a public utility, not an Investor Owned Utility, but I have my doubts.
What I am also wondering about is:
- How much can having 2 or 3 powerwalls change the picture.
For us, 10kW system, EV-A plan, both cars electric, 2018-2019 net metering period we didnt owe anything despite using close to 5MWh more than producing, thanks to time of use arbitrage.
For EV-A2 the same scenario would have cost us $1350, but with home batteries would be again owing nothing.
Now this year looks a bit different (less use of free supercharging and work charging) and with EV-A2 it projects if same behavior cost to be $1700 for the year. We already charge at night but I think the higher price of 17 cents per kWh at night compared to EV-A is a hard hit since that is where the majority of the electricity goes towards.
Would it make sense to have 3 powerwalls instead of two if the total project cost difference ended up being only $3k more for the 3 powerwalls?
Look at how many kWh you use during the 4-9pm Peak period and also the 3-4pm and 9pm-12mid Part-Peak periods. From an arbitrage standpoint, there is no point to having more Powerwall battery (plus Reserve for blackout) than you use in one day during those times. So, unless you use more than 20kWh/day during Peak (unlikely in SF) you don't need the third Powerwall.
I have two Powerwalls but only 4.3kW of solar. My arbitrage is limited by my Summer Peak consumption (no A/C) of about 10kWh/day and then in the late Fall to early Spring, it is limited by my solar generation. With your larger solar system, you will probably only be limited by your Peak and Part-Peak consumption, not your generation.
To me, the incremental increase in Off-Peak price from EV-A (~$0.14/kWh) to EV2-A (~$0.17/kWh) is minor compared to the drop from Part-Peak (~$0.34/kWh) to Off-Peak (~$0.17/kWh) they imposed on our solar generation from 7am-3pm. It used to be that the vast majority of my solar generation earned Part-Peak prices and I could use double the kWh during Off-Peak for EV charging. No more. It's 1:1 solar to EV charging because they're both Off-Peak.
