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PG&E Rate Schedules: "Home Charging" (EV2-A) Goes Live vs. Others

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I never liked the EV-A schedule much, and the rate timings weren't as optimal as E6.

We've been on MCE (deep green) since it's been around. I've been using their rate charts for comparing E6 and EVA
For me, the problem was that EV charging was too expensive on E-6, especially in the winter when I would go into the higher tiers due to my relatively small solar system. I went on E-9A as soon as I got my first EV in 2013. Summer charging was dirt cheap, barely over 5c/kWh total. However, they steadily ramped up the prices and by the time the EV rate came around, the lack of tiers in the Winter made it cheaper over the whole year, so I changed to that during the first winter it was open. Sometimes gut feeling about rate schedules is wrong. I always went by the pure math and calculated what each rate would cost based on my actual usage patterns. Now that I have Powerwalls, it's harder to calculate because your behavior on one schedule doesn't calculate the same because you can change the Powerwalls to match the new schedule.
 
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Honestly, I think you're too late. I think the best option would have been to change from E-6 to EV-A before July 1. However, if you are net surplus on kWh it may not matter and you can just sit tight until they kick you out of E-6. Are you on the Marin County CCA, MCE Clean Energy?

I made the switch from E-6 to EV-A a month ago, to get in before they closed EV-A. Solar, two EV's (but only one charged primarily at home) - the rate comparison tool was showing a wash, but leaning towards EV-A once I changed charging to start at midnight instead of 9 pm.

I may end up regretting it though. E-6 is grandfathered until end of 2022 (though the last two years the TOU periods shift against solar), and I figure they won't muck with the tariffs as much. Indeed, on July 1, the E-6 tariffs only jumped 2-3% vs EV-A jumping 7-9%. Even worse, I'm apparently not grandfathered on EV-A, and I guess they can force me off at any time.

I need to look at the generation/distribution split more though, since I just moved to the SVCE CCA. It's shocking how much they can play with that split for different rate schedules - how can they say it costs so differently to distribute the same electrons depending on what rate plan you choose?
 
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Hmm, I'm late to the party.

If my math is right, I can stay on EV-A until ca. 2022. I'm probably in a different situation than most: west-facing panels, all-electric house, no air conditioning, and NEM2. This time of year my generation peak is at about 15:30. Under previous TOU plans I've been pretty good at shifting usage off-peak, but with EV-A and NEM2 my true-ups have been driven by NBCs instead of net usage. To minimize NBCs I'd have to shift as much usage as possible to off-peak daylight hours: weekends, say 11:00-15:00. The benefits are marginal though, because PCE's annual credit seems to cancel out my PG&E MDC + NBC almost exactly. So I net out close to zero, and at a first approximation my cost is simply the amortized cost of my solar rig and installation.

Switching to EV2-A would mean having off-peak until 15:00 every weekday. Sounds kind of... nice? I like the idea of being able to run the dryer or the charger on weekday mornings. But I'd lose an hour of peak revenue every weekday. In the winter there's another tradeoff: pay less for heat in the morning, and more in the evening. It's tricky to estimate the overall effect. Would NBCs cease to dominate my true-ups? Would the true-ups be higher or lower?

Or maybe PG&E wants me to buy a Powerwall ;)
 
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Hmm, I'm late to the party.

If my math is right, I can stay on EV-A until ca. 2022. I'm probably in a different situation than most: west-facing panels, all-electric house, no air conditioning, and NEM2. This time of year my generation peak is at about 15:30. Under previous TOU plans I've been pretty good at shifting usage off-peak, but with EV-A and NEM2 my true-ups have been driven by NBCs instead of net usage. To minimize NBCs I'd have to shift as much usage as possible to off-peak daylight hours: weekends, say 11:00-15:00. The benefits are marginal though, because PCE's annual credit seems to cancel out my PG&E MDC + NBC almost exactly. So I net out close to zero, and at a first approximation my cost is simply the amortized cost of my solar rig and installation.

Switching to EV2-A would mean having off-peak until 15:00 every weekday. Sounds kind of... nice? I like the idea of being able to run the dryer or the charger on weekday mornings. But I'd lose an hour of peak revenue every weekday. In the winter there's another tradeoff: pay less for heat in the morning, and more in the evening. It's tricky to estimate the overall effect. Would NBCs cease to dominate my true-ups? Would the true-ups be higher or lower?

Or maybe PG&E wants me to buy a Powerwall ;)

I think that's the overall goal of PG&E's new plan: push more folks towards PowerWall installation. I will stay on EV-A plan as long as I can since I rely on my solar system generating enough credits during summer part-peak hours to get me through the winter. Once my grandfathered plan ends, I will consider battery storage.
 
I've followed these posts a long time, but I'm a first time poster. I just left E6 in mid June to transition to EV A. 6.5 kwH south facing system.

From what I can gander, PG&E is telling one and all to build solar systems facing West. South and (ee-gad) East facing systems are useless from an economic point of view.

Any person installing solar right now....the economic benefits are becoming less and less. And in time, we'll all have to transition to E-TOU.

When I first saw the new EV2 rate/time sheet, I spit out my coffee. Only West facing panel owners need apply. IF you don't own solar....it's not so bad, but I think the old EV A is better.
 
Net demand data from CA ISO makes it easy to see why they're moving peak rates in this direction.

cGs47tZ.png
 
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Am I right in understanding that presently the only two-way system for using one's actual car as home battery storage is Chademo? (I know that you have to have a special apparatus in the home to do so). I know CCS doesn't presently allow your car battery to revert to home battery when the car issn't driven. I believe the Tesla hookup is like CCS in this regard, no?

I wish/hope this become available. I'd rather not buy a powerwall when i've got 80 kwh of storage in the garage!!!
 
Am I right in understanding that presently the only two-way system for using one's actual car as home battery storage is Chademo? (I know that you have to have a special apparatus in the home to do so). I know CCS doesn't presently allow your car battery to revert to home battery when the car issn't driven. I believe the Tesla hookup is like CCS in this regard, no?

I wish/hope this become available. I'd rather not buy a powerwall when i've got 80 kwh of storage in the garage!!!
CHAdeMO is the only DC standard that actively supports DC export from a vehicle. However, I don't see why a bi-directional CCS charger would not work within the charging standard. Same for Tesla. The thing that will get it your way is if the car is monitoring the current flows and actively objects to current flowing out of the battery while an active DC charging session is in progress. The car can always open the contactors to break the connection to the battery and protect itself from anything it doesn't like.
 
I switched to EV A when I got my Model 3 in October 2018. I link the plan because I can charge at night at a cheap rate (0.15 on supergreen with CleanPowerSF) even though peak rate during the summer is crazy expensive (0.5..).

In September I will be starting a new job that will require me to commute with my Tesla about 100 miles per day which will require me to put about 30kwh every day in the car. So I guess the on peak consumption will matter much less.

Do you know how long I can keep EV A? Can we also keep it if we move to another house in the same service area?
 
I switched to EV A when I got my Model 3 in October 2018. I link the plan because I can charge at night at a cheap rate (0.15 on supergreen with CleanPowerSF) even though peak rate during the summer is crazy expensive (0.5..).

In September I will be starting a new job that will require me to commute with my Tesla about 100 miles per day which will require me to put about 30kwh every day in the car. So I guess the on peak consumption will matter much less.

Do you know how long I can keep EV A? Can we also keep it if we move to another house in the same service area?
You should get to keep EV-A for a while. It's not specified clearly if you don't have solar. One PG&E rep told me 5 years from when you first took that rate plan.

I have never heard of PG&E allowing people to take their grandfathered rate plan to a different house. You may be able to change the responsible party on the same meter, but not move the rate plan to another location.
 
Glad I saw this thread, I'm about to go solar w/ a 8KW array.

From what I can tell, the new EV and TOU plans are shifting the peak price periods so they no longer overlap with the peak solar generation hours. Seems like this significantly reduces the value of solar, and has me second guessing if I should be doing stored energy instead of solar.

Perhaps I'm mis-understanding how NEM work, but won't you need to produce 3KWH in off peek energy to pay for 1KWH in peek (when solar isn't producing)? Or is there some level of net KWH offset that kicks in?

Seems like the old EV-A rate was much more friendly towards solar generation times, I'm sad I missed out and didn't switch before it was discontinued.
 
I am on EV-A plan for last 5+ years. I just went Solar and my interconnection was turned on this week. Looks like PG&E didn't kick me out of EV-A. It wasn't clear if I will be allowed to stay on EV-A since my interconnection was after July 1st. For me, EV-A is far better than EV2-A because I will be able to sell much more during partial peak time during spring and summer and then use my credit back during winter. I don't have PowerWall and not planning to get one anytime soon ... they are way too expensive and has only 10 year warranty.
upload_2019-7-11_0-30-20.png
 
Glad I saw this thread, I'm about to go solar w/ a 8KW array.

From what I can tell, the new EV and TOU plans are shifting the peak price periods so they no longer overlap with the peak solar generation hours. Seems like this significantly reduces the value of solar, and has me second guessing if I should be doing stored energy instead of solar.

It's worth considering a storage battery as part of any new solar install. The ROI may not make sense though.

Perhaps I'm mis-understanding how NEM work, but won't you need to produce 3KWH in off peek energy to pay for 1KWH in peek (when solar isn't producing)? Or is there some level of net KWH offset that kicks in?

Selling 3-kWh off-peak would balance 1-kWh peak in gross NEM terms, but still you'll owe NBCs (non-bypassable charges) under NEM2. You'll pay NBCs whenever you have a net draw from the grid for any given hour. At my last true-up NBCs amounted to almost $200, even though my NEM balance was close to zero. PG&E doesn't do a very good job of presenting the NBC balance on monthly bills, so this may come as a surprise if you don't track it. I'd think storage would help a lot with NBCs, but I don't have one.

What helps me the most is San Mateo County's CCA/CCE: Peninsula Clean Energy. They keep their own credit balance for my account, and this year their payment was enough to compensate for the PG&E true-up charges.

Solar Net Metering
 
What helps me the most is San Mateo County's CCA/CCE: Peninsula Clean Energy. They keep their own credit balance for my account, and this year their payment was enough to compensate for the PG&E true-up charges.

Solar Net Metering
This specific point should not be under-estimated. IMHO, the biggest positive change in recent years with respect to electric utilities in California is the rise of CCAs. The fact that they are able to source carbon free power and pay distributed generators for the full value of their TOU differentials is a very positive outcome for solar consumers.There are many solar customers who were net positive kWh consumers but had TOU credit balances that were wiped out by PG&E. With most CCAs, they will get to either carry over small credit balances or cash out larger credit balances at true-up for the generation portion of their bills. This will help cover PG&E minimum charges and NBCs, if any. Now, if we can just get the CPUC to sunset PCIA fees, we'll make some really meaningful progress on reducing electric rates through CCAs.
 
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If you change your rate plan during a year, how does it impact true up and NEM? My household is all electric and I spend a lot more in winter (electric heat.. yuck) than in summer. This corresponds to the inverse of production. So in theory I would be better served with TOU-C3 in the summer and EV2-A in the winter.

Does this approach work? Or does changing rate plans change the calculation of how much NEM credits you have?

Also, I also have a CCA (San Mateo). How does rate plan on PGE impact the generation costs or credits charged by PG&E?
 
If you change your rate plan during a year, how does it impact true up and NEM? My household is all electric and I spend a lot more in winter (electric heat.. yuck) than in summer. This corresponds to the inverse of production. So in theory I would be better served with TOU-C3 in the summer and EV2-A in the winter.

Does this approach work? Or does changing rate plans change the calculation of how much NEM credits you have?

Also, I also have a CCA (San Mateo). How does rate plan on PGE impact the generation costs or credits charged by PG&E?
You can only change plans once per year, precisely so that you cannot game it to be on different plans in Winter and Summer. However, if you have never taken the EV rate and you get an EV, you can change to it even if you have changed your rate plan in the last year.
 
Glad I saw this thread, I'm about to go solar w/ a 8KW array.

From what I can tell, the new EV and TOU plans are shifting the peak price periods so they no longer overlap with the peak solar generation hours. Seems like this significantly reduces the value of solar, and has me second guessing if I should be doing stored energy instead of solar.

Perhaps I'm mis-understanding how NEM work, but won't you need to produce 3KWH in off peek energy to pay for 1KWH in peek (when solar isn't producing)? Or is there some level of net KWH offset that kicks in?

Seems like the old EV-A rate was much more friendly towards solar generation times, I'm sad I missed out and didn't switch before it was discontinued.

I think you get NEM correctly, the offsets accrue in dollars (I.e.retail rates), not in kwh. It used to be when peak aligned with solar, that one hour of peak generation paid for 2-3 hours of off-peak; now it's more the other way as you said. But without NEM, you'd get nothing for net generation (pushing excess to the grid).