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PG&E Rates??? For California owners

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#21
If you have an E1 with smart meter now, have you downloaded your usage from the PG&E website? I did that for a few months before my Roadster was delivered and a few months after and built a spreadsheet which calculated E1 and E9. E9 was consistently better for me so I switched. It might not be true for everyone.
I kept up that spreadsheet for several months, but eventually just dropped it and got a The Energy Detective (TED) which gives me a rough idea of what's going on. (You can't program in E-9 rates easily, but I got close.)

If you're spreadsheet savvy it's probably worth the exercise. I suppose I could dig up my old one and post it. It was pretty complicated especially when rates change.
 
#22
I am in the process of applying for the E-9A rate. My Tesla S arrives on Sunday. I do have solar and can easily charge the Tesla at midnight. The PGE person told me that they will be switching to a new EV rate, but that if you have E-9 you will be grandfathered in for at least some period of time.
 
#23
#24
jaanton said:
If you have an E1 with smart meter now, have you downloaded your usage from the PG&E website? I did that for a few months before my Roadster was delivered and a few months after and built a spreadsheet which calculated E1 and E9. E9 was consistently better for me so I switched. It might not be true for everyone.
I kept up that spreadsheet for several months, but eventually just dropped it and got a The Energy Detective (TED) which gives me a rough idea of what's going on. (You can't program in E-9 rates easily, but I got close.)

If you're spreadsheet savvy it's probably worth the exercise. I suppose I could dig up my old one and post it. It was pretty complicated especially when rates change.
Click to expand...

I downloaded a year's worth of hourly by hourly data, and am in the process of writing a program to calculate E1 vs E9A for me. I'll share what I have once I'm done, as I'm sure others would benefit from decrypting the mess that is PG&E rates.

From some spot checking of data, it seems that I'll do really well in the winter time, but will get murdered in the summer. Is that roughly what you see in your normal usage? I assume that you don't have solar and that you are E9A?

PG&E is such a joke. Tiered, off peak, partial peak, peak, rate changes in the middle of cycles, summer and winter rates. Oh, and don't forget it's probably the most expensive rate in the lower 48 states. I'm just really hoping my employer puts in some charge stations like they are supposed to at our office. Our other office has free charging, so maybe I'll just have to work from there a few times a week. haha
 
#25
astrotoy said:
I am in the process of applying for the E-9A rate. My Tesla S arrives on Sunday. I do have solar and can easily charge the Tesla at midnight. The PGE person told me that they will be switching to a new EV rate, but that if you have E-9 you will be grandfathered in for at least some period of time.
Click to expand...
I can't wait for the new rates. With 2 EVs and no solar we are solidly in Tier 5. The elimination of tiers with the new rate will save me over $40/month.
 
#26
So if you have solar and are currently on E-6, is it possible to switch to E-9A? It has much cheaper rates at night while charging, and more expensive rates in the day when I'm feeding power back to PG&E anyway. Currently I'm not paying anything for electricity, but with the Model S I'll probably have a positive but still under baseline usage.
 
#27
gregincal said:
So if you have solar and are currently on E-6, is it possible to switch to E-9A? It has much cheaper rates at night while charging, and more expensive rates in the day when I'm feeding power back to PG&E anyway. Currently I'm not paying anything for electricity, but with the Model S I'll probably have a positive but still under baseline usage.
Click to expand...

Yes you can I already talked to PG&E.

But until tesla offers timed charging, I am not getting up at midnight to plug the car in to get the off peak rate.

Also, consider when you will have to do laundry, dryer and dishwasher with the E9a time schedule.
I doubt you wife wants to do all of that after 9pm... :)
 
#28
Kaivball said:
Yes you can I already talked to PG&E.

But until tesla offers timed charging, I am not getting up at midnight to plug the car in to get the off peak rate.

Also, consider when you will have to do laundry, dryer and dishwasher with the E9a time schedule.
I doubt you wife wants to do all of that after 9pm... :)
Click to expand...

No, she does it during the daytime when the solar is cranking out the amps.
 
#30
Kaivball said:
But then you are not maximizing the solar panels.

The idea is to sell to PG&E when the rates are high and consume when the rates are low.

If you consume your own solar generated energy you are leaving money on the table. :)
Click to expand...

But that's the way I do things, I'm not changing my habits either way. But here's the question. With the Schedule 9A the rates are higher during the day. So is PG&E paying me more for the power I deliver them? I'm doing stuff during the day but still generating excess power and consuming a lot during the night charging. Don't I want higher rates during the day when I'm generating excess power and lower rates when I'm using power? I don't see the downside to switching.
 
#31
gregincal said:
But that's the way I do things, I'm not changing my habits either way. But here's the question. With the Schedule 9A the rates are higher during the day. So is PG&E paying me more for the power I deliver them? I'm doing stuff during the day but still generating excess power and consuming a lot during the night charging. Don't I want higher rates during the day when I'm generating excess power and lower rates when I'm using power? I don't see the downside to switching.
Click to expand...

I am in the same boat. However, I am changing my habits - just getting a Tesla is doing that. I stay up late, so plugging it in at midnight is not big deal for me. I usually have a couple of months a year where I generate more electricity than I use, but PGE is paying me some puny rate for that. With E-9A, I should be getting the best bargain - generating when the rates are highest and consuming when they are lower or lowest. I talked to my PGE person and he told me that when I called on February 1 to begin the switch over process, they switched me to E-9A the next day, even before my car arrived.
 
#32
If you generate more electricity than you consume and have a net negative meter reading, PG&E will only pay you wholesale rate for the kWh you generate and put back into the grid.

If you're designing a solar system it is always advised to leave at least a small net usage from PG&E on your bill, so they have to pay you the TOU rate, not wholesale rate. At least that's what I was told by the consultant from SolarCity.
 
#33
Kaivball said:
I came to the exact same conclusion.

We have E6 now and have had solar panels for 6 years.

E9 increases the peak hour and the super low off peak are only from midnight to 7am.

I asked the PG&E guy to run a comparative analysis using my known TOU history against the E9 plan but unfortunately they are not technologically savvy enough to do that.

Will stay on E6 for now.
Click to expand...

I have solar and moved from E7 (which was supplanted by E6) to E9 a year ago. I used 3mW charging my Karma over the past year and my electricity bill went DOWN compared to the prior year. The reason is that during peak periods I am a net generator of power, so the higher peak power rates benefits rather than hurts me. I charge off peak, and in addition all of the other power I used during that time (pressure pump for running sprinklers, standby electronics, etc.) is at $.20 vs. $.30. The end result is a lower bill overall + "free" charging.

Now all I need is timed charging for the Model S. :smile:
 
#34
dennis said:
I have solar and moved from E7 (which was supplanted by E6) to E9 a year ago. I used 3mW charging my Karma over the past year and my electricity bill went DOWN compared to the prior year. The reason is that during peak periods I am a net generator of power, so the higher peak power rates benefits rather than hurts me. I charge off peak, and in addition all of the other power I used during that time (pressure pump for running sprinklers, standby electronics, etc.) is at $.20 vs. $.30. The end result is a lower bill overall + "free" charging.

Now all I need is timed charging for the Model S. :smile:
Click to expand...

This is not completely correct. Pge will pay you back for excess generation, but only at $.04 per Kwh at the true-up period once a year.
 
#35
Well, the solar city guy is visiting me this Saturday to discuss installing the charger and possibly more solar panels. I have 15 panels now. In the summer my lowest usage is 400kwh but in the winter around Christmas I go as high as 1,500 kwh.

Adding the MS I'll be at a permanent 900 kwh up to 2000 kwh in the winter months.

Got to do something about that.
 
#38
PG&E SmartRate summer pricing plan

Has anyone signed up for this SmartRate thing?
During the months of June - September,
  • Discount of $0.02992 per kWh (except for 2-7pm on "SmartDays")
  • Additional discount of $0.01/kWh in tiers 3+
  • Surcharge of $0.60/kWh from 2pm-7pm on "SmartDays" (no more than 15 per year)

Gives an incentive beyond tiering and TOU to reduce usage on the most critical days. I guess these will be when temperatures peak, and they give 1 day notice when calling out SmartDays.

Seems like a good deal to me, especially if SmartDays happen on weekdays since we both work and the kids are in all day school/aftercare. On weekends we would just go out to the mall or something.
 
#39
I signed up for this a couple months ago when I changed to the E6 plan. For the up to 15 smart days, we're supposed to get an email a day in advance letting us know the higher rates apply. We'll see how this goes.

Kipernicus said:
Has anyone signed up for this SmartRate thing?
During the months of June - September,
  • Discount of $0.02992 per kWh (except for 2-7pm on "SmartDays")
  • Additional discount of $0.01/kWh in tiers 3+
  • Surcharge of $0.60/kWh from 2pm-7pm on "SmartDays" (no more than 15 per year)

Gives an incentive beyond tiering and TOU to reduce usage on the most critical days. I guess these will be when temperatures peak, and they give 1 day notice when calling out SmartDays.

Seems like a good deal to me, especially if SmartDays happen on weekdays since we both work and the kids are in all day school/aftercare. On weekends we would just go out to the mall or something.
Click to expand...
 
#40
I just logged into PG&E's website which shows usage and now my E9A rate is handled by the usage graphs. They show all the different prices on a daily basis. I'm not sure this is really right. It seems with the way E9A works, use more power late in the billing cycle and your earlier usage ratios may be pushed into higher tiers.

Anyhow, it's interesting. Clearly PG&E is trying to push into TOU detailing.
 
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