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PG&E rates?
- Thread starter geometro
- Start date
Eno Deb
Active Member
This is impossible to answer since it depends entirely on your personal energy usage patterns. The EV-A rate is generally a good deal *if* you can avoid using energy during the peak period (2pm-9pm on weekdays, 3pm-7pm on weekends). The peak rate is super expensive, especially during summer (almost 50c/kWh), so if you use any significant energy there, it will quickly eat up any potential savings from charging your car overnight. You may want to take a look at your energy use history on PG&E's web site (you can switch to daily view to see per-hour statistics). Compared to your existing tiered plan, the off-peak rate is very cheap (~13c/kWh), and the part-peak rate similar to tier 2.
TapHabit
Member
‘I’ll definitely get that app when i get everything going. If you don’t mind, i’m Just curious to what the actual dollar amounts are that the incentives provide. Is it some like like before incentives your power bill was $200, and now its $100?
I did change from E-6 to EV-A a couple months ago - shortly after the Model 3 arrived. So far it seems to be a win. Perhaps I should have done it sooner...
Eno Deb
Active Member
It is highly unlikely to make that much of a difference. How much do you expect to drive per day? Assume, say, that you'd drive 50 miles/day on average. Given an energy consumption of about 330Wh/mile for your Model S, that corresponds to about 16kWh/day. Overnight charging on the EV-A plan would save you about 13c/kWh compared to the tier 2 rate in your current plan, which is a little more than $2 per day in this scenario. On the other hand, the cost of your non-car energy use would likely increase a bit unless you can shift everything out of peak time.
TapHabit
Member
What i forgot to mention is that i will rarely be charging my car at home. I have an insanely convenient supercharger next to my work, with free super charging, so i’ll Be using that for 90% of my cars charge.
So i’d Get the EV discount, but wont be using any more power than normal at my house. (Shhhh, don’t tell them). I’m wondering how much of a % discount would be reflected on my monthly bill. Same power usage, but now on a EV plan. Our house is basically off during peak hours anyway because my wife and i are both working
Eno Deb
Active Member
Not sure what EV discount you mean. What PG&E offers for EV owners are TOU plans that have significantly lower rates during the night in exchange for very expensive rates in the afternoon/evening. So if you don't plan to actually charge the car overnight, there is no benefit unless you can shift a lot of your normal energy use to the night.
BTW, make sure to apply for their one-time $500 rebate once you get the car:
Clean Fuel Rebate for fueling electric vehicles
aesculus
Still Trying to Figure This All Out
You work until 9PM weekdays, because that is when the super high rates go down to just expensive.
Eno Deb
Active Member
I switched from E-1 (tiered rate) to EV-A after getting my Model 3. I have now received 3 bills on the new rate, and it's so far been a win. I shifted most energy-intensive tasks (like using the dryer and washing machine) to off-peak hours (weekend or late night), and of course charge the car overnight. As a result over 70% of my electricity usage was off-peak over the last 3 billing periods. Bottomline is that I pay about the same for electricity now as I did before I had the car, even though I use a lot more. 
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e-FTW
New electron smell
I did the same, and even though PG&Es fine print mentions an L2 charger is the assumption, and I only have L1 charging (standard 120 volts), I am still saving money with this rate.
If you have an EV and can charge at home get this rate. No brainer! And if you cannot charge at home, but can move you electricity usage around, it might still be worth it.
If you have an EV and can charge at home get this rate. No brainer! And if you cannot charge at home, but can move you electricity usage around, it might still be worth it.
When we were back on E-6 I started charging our Volt at 11:00 pm, instead of 9 pm. After a few months of this, I could then credibly use the rate estimator at the PG&E web site. It would estimate that I might only save $50 or so per year with EV-A. So it wasn't enough to bother with the uncertainty of changing plans. But now we've added overnight Model 3 charging, it has swung greatly in favor of EV-A.
I should note that we also have a 6.38 kW solar system and NEMS metering.
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I noticed how people quote the 0.13/kWh off peak rates, but doesn’t that only include delivery? Generation costs about 0.02/kWh, making the rate actually around 0.15/kWh, right? Anyway, I'm going to be using the delivery PLUS generation costs in my calculations below.
Prior to getting my Telsa about 4 weeks go I was on a tiered plan, I just got my first bill after switching from tiered to EVA, so the following comparison factors in not only switching my rate from tiered to EVA, but also comparing Tesla and no Tesla.
My previous months average daily electricity use was just under 13kWh, this month is was just over 21kWh. This makes perfect sense because I use on average ~10kWh per day for charging the Tesla and I started charging the Tesla at home about 5 days into the current bill I just received.
Now the more interesting part. Last month I used 335.63636kWh of electricity that cost a total of $94.39. This month I used 570.909kWh that cost a total of $113.62 So compared to last month, the extra 235kWh cost me less than $20. Assuming the 235kWh difference was all Tesla charging (which I think is a fair estimate) if I stayed on the tiered rate, 235kWh even on the tier 1 rate (~$0.28/kWh) it would have cost over $65. Therefore, I saved over $45 just this month alone by switching from tiered to EVA. If I did the comparison with the tier 2 rate, my savings would even more.
And finally, based on PG&Es calculator, for the past year, if I was on a TOU plan instead of tiered, I would have only saved about $5 for the whole year.
Prior to getting my Telsa about 4 weeks go I was on a tiered plan, I just got my first bill after switching from tiered to EVA, so the following comparison factors in not only switching my rate from tiered to EVA, but also comparing Tesla and no Tesla.
My previous months average daily electricity use was just under 13kWh, this month is was just over 21kWh. This makes perfect sense because I use on average ~10kWh per day for charging the Tesla and I started charging the Tesla at home about 5 days into the current bill I just received.
Now the more interesting part. Last month I used 335.63636kWh of electricity that cost a total of $94.39. This month I used 570.909kWh that cost a total of $113.62 So compared to last month, the extra 235kWh cost me less than $20. Assuming the 235kWh difference was all Tesla charging (which I think is a fair estimate) if I stayed on the tiered rate, 235kWh even on the tier 1 rate (~$0.28/kWh) it would have cost over $65. Therefore, I saved over $45 just this month alone by switching from tiered to EVA. If I did the comparison with the tier 2 rate, my savings would even more.
And finally, based on PG&Es calculator, for the past year, if I was on a TOU plan instead of tiered, I would have only saved about $5 for the whole year.
No, the Tariff lists the all-in retail price. On EV-A (whole house metered EV service) the actual rates effective Jan 1, 2019 are the following:
Miraculously, the rates actually went down across the board. That's what the (R) means. So, the total rate (energy charge) during Off-Peak is less than 13 cents per kWh. If you want to see the whole tariff, including the breakdown of generation, transmission, distributions, etc. you can read the tariff here: https://www.pge.com/tariffs/assets/pdf/tariffbook/ELEC_SCHEDS_EV (Sch).pdf
I believe that link will always resolve to the rates currently in effect.
[Edit]
Looking at the Unbundled Rates, the Transmission and DWR Bond charges went down while the Distribution went up in the Peak and Part-Peak periods.
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Then why are there two sections for the electrical part of my bill, one for delivery and one for generation? I've cut and pasted the two relevant sections from my last bill. Both sections contribute to the total of the bill.
Attachments
Looks like you are part of a community choice aggregator. The CCA contracts for generation, and PG&E distributes the power and does all the billing. If you want, you can opt out of it and let PG&E buy generation for you. But normally the CCAs price generation just under what PG&E charges for generation (+ PG&Es "power charge indifference adjustment"...) The CCA I am part of is SVCE (SVCE)
Eno Deb
Active Member
This is because the power is sourced from a local CCA in your area. You'll notice a "Generation Credit" in the PG&E part of the bill. This is a reimbursement for PG&E's generation charges since you no longer use their power. There is also a "Power Charge Indifference Adjustment" and "Franchise Fee" that PG&E charges to pay for contractual obligations from the time before the CCA.
The generation charges of the CCA (in your case MCE) are usually calculated such that you pay the same or a little less than you would pay PG&E if the power was still sourced from them. Accordingly, your total rate is the same or less than the bundled PG&E rate from their rate schedule as shown in @miimura's post above.
The prior two posters are exactly right @pdp1
You will notice that the sum of the Generation Credit, PCIA, and Franchise Fee net out to -$20.07 while the MCE Generation charge is only $18.49. That means that you're paying slightly less than the full PG&E tariff by staying on the CCA.
You will notice that the sum of the Generation Credit, PCIA, and Franchise Fee net out to -$20.07 while the MCE Generation charge is only $18.49. That means that you're paying slightly less than the full PG&E tariff by staying on the CCA.
