Phantom braking from new gantries

[Fursty Ferret]

Not entirely sure that it's linked but I had two of the worst phantom braking events ever experienced in my Model 3 while on the M1 today.

Both were triggered by the new gantries placed as part of the smart motorway network near Nottingham.

They seem to have a lattice-like structure and this is perhaps sending corrupted reflections back to the radar.

Both times were the hardest braking I've experienced, along with the forward collision warning, and interestingly both occured during a lane change while approaching the gantry.

Recommend caution. In general it's actually been fairly well behaved until now.

 

[Jeff_Coburn]

The phantom braking problem will never be solved until Tesla admit their approach to ADAS has been a fiasco that has killed and endangered their owners and switch to Intel's MobilEye platform, meaning that the camera would have to be replaced, or at least new Teslas would need to be switched to the Mobileye system.

Tesla's approach will never compete with Mobileye in terms of safety OR performance. Anyone who has driven with an Intel Mobileye equipped vehicle and who pays attention to the dashboard warning, throttle control, and braking and steering events that the MobilEye EyeQ chip passes to the vehicle control systems, even as far back as 2017, can tell you that the system simply does not make mistakes. I don't mean it doesn't occasionally make mistakes, it does not ever make mistakes.

Furthermore, the Road Experience Management (REM) approach is vastly superior to Tesla's in every way, which I personally believe is one of the reasons why I am unable to fool the camera even when I try (pretty much on a daily basis!) to get the car to hit things.

Mobileye REM™ - Road Experience Management

Mobileye REM™ - Road Experience Management

www.mobileye.com

MobilEye is in their 7th generation of chips with 100 million shipped, autonomous full self driving was supported in 2016, and they are now integrating LIDAR into the platform, while Tesla has essentially given up and continues to claim that camera only is enough.

The Evolution of EyeQ

Mobileye's EyeQ® SoC is a custom hardware and software solution specifically designed for ADAS and self-driving systems. The EyeQ® SoC suite was developed specifically for driving applications and is the most trusted chip for ADAS and AV tech.

www.mobileye.com

Tesla is correct, a camera is sufficient. But who wants sufficient on a system that if it fails can be the difference between life or death? I don't, I want over-engineered. And I want dual systems checking each other. Other manufacturers are integrating LIDAR / RADAR. Consider how an airplanes Nav runs (every input from every sensor is fed to two totally separate computers running calculations simultaneously, autopilot in a plane must receive confirmation from both system or advise pilot to take control.). You don't give up on input on a critical decision like when to brake, steer, accelerate because your engineers couldn't make it work properly. You use a system that does work if you cannot design your own.

I would very much like to buy a new Tesla, but will continue to wait until the company gets serious about their approach to ADAS. Also expecting them to score higher than 65 from Consumer Reports for the in-vehicle Infotainment systems.

 

[pdk42]

It’s been said many times before, but the truth is that Tesla’s AP is seriously lacking in reliability. It’s ok most of the time, and so long as you accept that, then it’s worth having - esp for long motorway journeys. But you’d be a fool to trust it! Just keep your foot hovering over the accelerator pedal.

 

[Cnixon]

Jeff..and what car do you drive?

 

[BeerOhYeah]

I have to say that my 2015 merc c class has a far more reliable adaptive cruise control (no lane keeping though) than the tesla. Does seems to have improved a touch, but the Merc has not had an issue in my memory - as pdk42 says, you always keep your foot hovering

 

[yessuz]

my 69 reg bmw 3 series had much much better driver's assistant than tesla's AP. I never had a single instance of PB in 2 years owning it. + changing lanes - accelerates in advance no issues

 

[Jason71]

Took one of my first really long motoway journeys last week since covid. Multiple phantom braking events. Not just lorries and bridges but also several while passing exits???
No progress i could see since i got the car in 2019. If anything worse.
Nevermind im sure my new vision only MY will be much better when it arrives.......

 

[Skie]

Driving under low branches seems to cause it too. Low ish, HGVs can fit under it.

 

[M1tch]

Another problem with our psychotically expensive, dangerous, killer “smart” motorways. Not the cars fault.

 

[Hurricane]

Another problem with our psychotically expensive, dangerous, killer “smart” motorways. Not the cars fault.

Of course it’s the cars fault. Yes, there is growing evidence that smart motorways can be unsafe but that doesn’t mean that gantries, a perfectly normal piece of motorway furniture, should cause phantom braking. Gantries don’t make me brake in error, and it just shows how far FSD has to go before it can emulate a human driver.

 

[yessuz]

Of course it’s the cars fault. Yes, there is growing evidence that smart motorways can be unsafe but that doesn’t mean that gantries, a perfectly normal piece of motorway furniture, should cause phantom braking. Gantries don’t make me brake in error, and it just shows how far FSD has to go before it can emulate a human driver.

oh, it's only issue with motorways and car is perfectly fine.



as per some others here ))