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Phantom Braking - Has it gotten better?

Hi everybody, thanks for your responses!! I think I was mostly concerned with particularly extreme phantom braking (slowing down to 30mph or lower on the freeway). Since it seems that doesn't happen much, I think it's something that can be lived with. Also good to see that Vision AP is at least 95% as good as radar AP, which felt good enough to me at the time. I guess I'll buy the car and see for myself :)
I'm not sure you need to slow down to 30MPH or lower on the freeway to be concerned. In bumper to bumper high speed traffic around our beltway, I'll often lose 5-10MPH very suddenly (worse with FSD beta now...every trip). When a car is close behind me, I tend to get lots of fingers, aggressive counters, etc. It seems to happen with shadows, overpasses and even tar lines on the road. I'm trying to get out of FSD beta and I opted out, but it's still there. Maybe when my subscription expires in a week or so, I'll be back to the normal phanton breaking.

Radar, in my experience, was great, Tesla vision (non FSD) was ok, Tesla vision with FSD is a nightmare in my area (mid adlantic / midwest)

I'd still buy the car over any other options in this price range right now.
 
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Hi everyone,

I have an order in on a Model 3 and am primarily buying it because of Autopilot. Since Tesla Vision has come out, some people are saying Phantom Braking has gotten better, others say worse.

I'm a bit nervous and thinking about cancelling my order, truthfully, if the problem is bad enough, but still believe Autopilot could kind of change my life.

Do people regularly experience phantom braking still? Any hard braking (for example, 70mph - 30mph on the freeway?) Has it been getting better?

Thank you!
I just got my Tesla model 3 a couple months ago. Phantom braking occurs nearly every single time I use cruise control. Terrifying and dangerous
 

novox77

Active Member
Nov 25, 2017
2,559
5,493
NH, MA
Hi everybody, thanks for your responses!! I think I was mostly concerned with particularly extreme phantom braking (slowing down to 30mph or lower on the freeway). Since it seems that doesn't happen much, I think it's something that can be lived with. Also good to see that Vision AP is at least 95% as good as radar AP, which felt good enough to me at the time. I guess I'll buy the car and see for myself :)

if your commute involves heavy traffic, AP is absolutely worth it.
 
I got me M3P a few months ago, and have had a few odd phantom braking events here and there but Saturday i drove from MI to OH, and part of the way was on a two lane stretch of rural road that was 55mph. Traffic was light in my direction (no one behind me) but in the other direction was frequent traffic including 6-ish tractor trailers. Almost every time one of the trucks passed me going in the other direction, the car would slow from 60mph to about 25mph along with beeping the collision warning. I am glad no one was behind me to rear-end me, and if there was I would have turned off the TACC when trucks approached given how repeatable the phantom braking was.

it seemed likely that the car had trouble estimating the truck position and thought it was partly in my lane.

Has any one else heard or experienced that type of phantom braking?
 
I got me M3P a few months ago, and have had a few odd phantom braking events here and there but Saturday i drove from MI to OH, and part of the way was on a two lane stretch of rural road that was 55mph. Traffic was light in my direction (no one behind me) but in the other direction was frequent traffic including 6-ish tractor trailers. Almost every time one of the trucks passed me going in the other direction, the car would slow from 60mph to about 25mph along with beeping the collision warning. I am glad no one was behind me to rear-end me, and if there was I would have turned off the TACC when trucks approached given how repeatable the phantom braking was.

it seemed likely that the car had trouble estimating the truck position and thought it was partly in my lane.

Has any one else heard or experienced that type of phantom braking?
Yes, I’m having this on my MYP with FSD Beta, and it seems exponentially worse at night. Wasn’t an issue for me prior to the beta (for what it’s worth, I have a radar car). It’s bad enough that I really can’t use TACC at all on two-lane highways.
 
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Much better, unless you just got FSD Beta, in which case much much much worse
Interesting. I have FSD on T3LR. The auto mode is unworkable and not a lot better when just in plain cruise control, continuing to brake when it should not, needing urgent attention.
I have a new Tesla S LR on order and if this isn’t fixed by its delivery date, I will cancel order.
Love the car but this ‘feature’ is dangerous.
 
There are almost never cases that extreme. Recently the beta update broke something and beta testers experienced false emergency braking. That was a bug and doesn’t reflect “Phantom” braking as it’s typically discussed here.
Incorrect. Have you driven 10.4? Biggest two concerns are extreme phantom braking with no other traffic nearby and left turn inaccuracies. Both have been happening to me. 10.4 has less "minor" phantom braking but when it does happen, and let there be no mistake it does happen, it is dangerously hard and has twice disengaged FSD in my personal experience. I believe it is possible that the extreme low angle of the sun at this time of the year was responsible in one of the worst cases I have experienced. 10.4 has been much less capable for me than 10.3.1, and I use it far less because I do not feel safe.
 
can you guys report if you're having phantom braking with radar equipped car or vision only. thank you
Radar is disabled with FSD beta, so they behave the same. I'd strongly prefer to have a radar based model y with no FSD beta for reduced phantom braking. Just drove 8 hours each way do Thanksgiving and my family was extremely frustrated by the dozen phantom brakes each way. One was so hard I had to intervene to keep from getting rear-ended. I still have FSD beta firmware... But do not have the FSD subscription.
 

S4WRXTTCS

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2015
6,522
7,927
Snohomish, WA
can you guys report if you're having phantom braking with radar equipped car or vision only. thank you
There is actually a survey in this section of TMC that showed that severe braking with Vision only was significantly worse than with Radar+Vision,.

I have experiences with both (before the FSD Beta was Radar+Vision, and now that I have FSD beta its vision only) and it is worse with Vision only.

Before Vision only most of the phantom braking events were maps related issues. Like the car suddenly thinking it was in a 45mph zone versus a 60mph freeway. This resulted in mild to moderate phantom braking. A bit annoying, but not especially bad. Where Vision only at times can be downright nutty.
 

S4WRXTTCS

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2015
6,522
7,927
Snohomish, WA
Radar is disabled with FSD beta, so they behave the same. I'd strongly prefer to have a radar based model y with no FSD beta for reduced phantom braking. Just drove 8 hours each way do Thanksgiving and my family was extremely frustrated by the dozen phantom brakes each way. One was so hard I had to intervene to keep from getting rear-ended. I still have FSD beta firmware... But do not have the FSD subscription.
I wonder if they're really the same.

They should be, and I have no knowledge that says otherwise.

The only reason I'm pondering the question is Radar+Vision before the FSD Beta was a somewhat shippable product. Like I'd give it a passing grade with frustration over some mild to moderate phantom braking on long trips (400+ miles would have 1 or 2).

But, with Vision only with AP/TACC (with FSD Beta is horrendous). It's most definitely not a shippable product. If non-FSD Beta owners were having experiences that I along with other FSD Beta users are having their would be a revolt. Now there has been some media coverage like a recent publication gave the Model Y a do not recommend because of Phantom braking with Vision only. So it could be the same, but maybe most owners are more forgiving than I am.
 

Krock65

Member
Supporting Member
Nov 21, 2020
73
29
Ridgecrest, CA
Hi everybody, thanks for your responses!! I think I was mostly concerned with particularly extreme phantom braking (slowing down to 30mph or lower on the freeway). Since it seems that doesn't happen much, I think it's something that can be lived with. Also good to see that Vision AP is at least 95% as good as radar AP, which felt good enough to me at the time. I guess I'll buy the car and see for myself :)
One reason you don’t hear much about abrupt slowing from 70-30 or so is that most people will press the accelerator long before it gets that bad. Unnerving problem, but a simple correction. And hopefully the need for that correction goes away soon (and not soon enough!). But I love my MY and being able to be a part of the beta!
 

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