Phantom braking in my new Model Y

[pbcsd]

Phantom Braking almost assuredly can't be fixed with a single, simple software update. I've seen false-positives described mostly as a world-modelling problem in the AV space and it's like playing whack-a-mole -- as more objects are labelled and detected to expand functionality, more false-positives will be created.

Tesla's system might be worse in this regard because it's trying to do so much whereas competitors focus on a much narrower scope and thus limit the chances of things going wrong. I would hazard a guess that Elon/Tesla thought smoothing these out would be easier and happen more quickly than in reality.

Feels like there is a simple fix to this, have cruise control simply hold the speed and ideally keep you within a lane. Leave the braking to the driver, who should be the one watching at full attention.

Want the car to drive for you more than that? Use FSD..

 

[kabin]

Complex shadows and roadway markings can momentarily appear like a pedestrian at distance in 2D camera images. And pedestrians get a high priority AI brake response making this a tough nut to crack.

 

[DayTrippin]

It was Tesla's choice to go the route they did. For now we all suffer.

You should use the right tools for the job. If TeslaVision doesn't get it done. If 2D cameras aren't adequate, then give me a refund or retrofit (free of cost) what is needed to make it work.

 

[riles246]

I have a 2015 Model S with AP1 and have never had a phantom breaking event in the 30,000 miles that I’ve owned it. I bragged about my car to my dad for years until he finally broke down this year and bought a MYP. I’m visiting him this week and took his car on a 150 mile trip to Disney on mostly two-lane roads. Holy crap, I HATE this car. The first phantom brake event took us from 70 to 45 and applied corrective steering; it was absolutely terrifying for me and my family. The next 20 minutes had a phantom brake every 1-2 minutes until I decided just to drive manually the rest of the way until we finally made it to a highway. Even regular “dumb” cruise control had it happen.

Braking got better on the highway but the auto high beam was just awful. This car wants to blind everyone. Every lane change it would turn auto high beam back on when I re-enabled autopilot.

This car is downright terrifying and unsafe. I’m not exaggerating when I say that I sincerely hope it doesn’t kill my parents. I’m going to recommend that he trade it in for anything else now, it is just insane how bad this car is at driving.

 

[Sludog]

I have a 2015 Model S with AP1 and have never had a phantom breaking event in the 30,000 miles that I’ve owned it. I bragged about my car to my dad for years until he finally broke down this year and bought a MYP. I’m visiting him this week and took his car on a 150 mile trip to Disney on mostly two-lane roads. Holy crap, I HATE this car. The first phantom brake event took us from 70 to 45 and applied corrective steering; it was absolutely terrifying for me and my family. The next 20 minutes had a phantom brake every 1-2 minutes until I decided just to drive manually the rest of the way until we finally made it to a highway. Even regular “dumb” cruise control had it happen.

Braking got better on the highway but the auto high beam was just awful. This car wants to blind everyone. Every lane change it would turn auto high beam back on when I re-enabled autopilot.

This car is downright terrifying and unsafe. I’m not exaggerating when I say that I sincerely hope it doesn’t kill my parents. I’m going to recommend that he trade it in for anything else now, it is just insane how bad this car is at driving.

You must be mistaken. According to many previous posts phantom braking does not exist. Only a few people have experienced this.
Are you sure you were driving the car correctly? Maybe you were using the autopilot wrong.

 

[a.andy2]

In my case, my 2022 MYLR sometimes reduces the maximum speed to 30 mph from 70 mph at some highway sections during autopilot. When I travel the sections, I have to scroll and adjust the maximum speed. There are 3-4 sections on I-66 WB near DC area. I am not sure it it phantom braking or navigation errors. Do I have to report to Tesla for this problem?

 

[frankvb]

Worst phantom braking I ever experienced south of Grand Canyon village driving south. 2-lane road, no other car in sight, perfect view of the road, and slowing down for no reason at all. What seemed to help was dropping it out of AP and getting back in, that helped for maybe 5 minutes until it started doing this again (over and over). I have radar but also FSD Beta. In my experience vision-only is definitely worse as it comes to PB events.

Agreed with other posters that the reason is almost certainly that the car is trying to detect unsafe situations, and getting false positives, which is different from other brand's adaptive cruise control.

Slightly related, on AZ 85 (4-lane divided highway) it sometimes read the road sign as '35' and adjusted the speed to 35

 

[smogne41]

Even regular “dumb” cruise control had it happen.

There is no "dumb" cruise control option, it is still TACC, which is just Autopilot where you have to steer it. Phantom braking will be the same in both. An actual dumb option would be awesome, but its a step away from automation so no way Elon will allow it (even though the code is already there).

 

[VQTRVA]

Worst phantom braking I ever experienced south of Grand Canyon village driving south. 2-lane road, no other car in sight, perfect view of the road, and slowing down for no reason at all. What seemed to help was dropping it out of AP and getting back in, that helped for maybe 5 minutes until it started doing this again (over and over). I have radar but also FSD Beta. In my experience vision-only is definitely worse as it comes to PB events.

Agreed with other posters that the reason is almost certainly that the car is trying to detect unsafe situations, and getting false positives, which is different from other brand's adaptive cruise control.

Slightly related, on AZ 85 (4-lane divided highway) it sometimes read the road sign as '35' and adjusted the speed to 35

That is the consensus from 'professional' Tesla observers (James Douma for one) - that for the non-Beta FSD owners, the phantom braking rate will be configured to the least common denominator ie- dumbest drivers - & it will feel extreme & random to them but the most conservative & safest.

The goal is to collect as much data from all of us to feed the neural network & speed up the ML learning & path towards target FSD.

That said one bright side for FSD Beta folks is that on long trips & in the middle of nowhere - they can help the Neural Network by observing patterns of Phantom 'menace' Braking & report it immediately in the empty vastness (i hope) of travelling in nowhere.

 

[buddhafree]

That is the consensus from 'professional' Tesla observers (James Douma for one) - that for the non-Beta FSD owners, the phantom braking rate will be configured to the least common denominator ie- dumbest drivers - & it will feel extreme & random to them but the most consservative & safest.

If my car AP behaves "extreme & random" then it's not likely I would be inclined to use such a feature. To feel safe I need to be able to predict car behavior.

 

[VQTRVA]

If my car AP behaves "extreme & random" then it's not likely I would be inclined to use such a feature. To feel safe I need to be able to predict car behavior.

The Tesla messaging has not been transparent: that they essentially are using all of us as sensors to help the machine learn which will help FSD in the long run.

Now what I haven't seen is Tesla discouraging those who can't handle the oddities of driving a Tesla esp. the most common denominators.

 

[dan031970]

Strangely enough after 5 weeks of MY ownership driving almost entirely on 2 lane non-divided highways my phantom breaking issues seem to be improving. Not sure why, but semi trucks and buses don't seem to make the system freak out like it did when I first go the car. I still have issues and I wouldn't consider the system safe, but now braking when an oncoming vehicle seems to come out of no where when cresting a hill is my biggest issue.

Anyone else observe changing phantom breaking circumstances over time? My car is almost tolerable now. I don't have FSD, and I rarely use auto steer because it puts the car in the center of the lane and I prefer to be as far away from on-coming traffic as possible. I would LOVE to have dumb cruise control as it much better than constantly worrying that I am going to get rear ended because the car breaks irrationally.

 

[DerbyCityY]

I am to pick up my Model Y sometime in June. I sometimes get the feeling I've ordered a beta model. I'm not a squeamish person but this gets me nervous. You all don't feel this is unusual? Why doesn't Tesla let us know that they're working on it and give us some kind of warm feeling? This accident has not been investigated. Could be driver problem too.

A Tesla car came to a complete stop on an interstate, police say, causing a 3-car crash that killed the driver

 

[WhiteWi]

I am to pick up my Model Y sometime in June. I sometimes get the feeling I've ordered a beta model. I'm not a squeamish person but this gets me nervous. You all don't feel this is unusual? I feel a little let down in the car.

A Tesla car came to a complete stop on an interstate, police say, causing a 3-car crash that killed the driver

Before the investigation is done and Tesla releases what car and driver were doing, was it in AP or not. It will be just a speculation. Plus it’s 2019 M3 which has radar and driver was 74. Who knows maybe he had a stroke or heart attack. Lets see what investigators find.

 

[Sludog]

Before the investigation is done and Tesla releases what car and driver were doing, was it in AP or not. It will be just a speculation. Plus it’s 2019 M3 which has radar and driver was 74. Who knows maybe he had a stroke or heart attack. Lets see what investigators find.

I love how the media is so quick to put the name Tesla in the headlines of a car crash. Any other car crash in the news you will never see the brand of car in the headlines but usually buried in the article. Just like the hundreds of car fires each day you never hear about but if its a Tesla on fire its on every news station in the country.

 

[buddhafree]

...This accident has not been investigated. Could be driver problem too.

A Tesla car came to a complete stop on an interstate, police say, causing a 3-car crash that killed the driver

The driver may fell unconscious and Tesla stopped the car (as it should). I don't know, of course, just a guess.

Tesla Autopilot brings car to a stop after drunk driver becomes unconscious at the wheel

A Tesla driver in Norway decided to get behind the wheel of his Model S while intoxicated and visibly fell...

electrek.co

 

[chillmode]

Have had my MYP for a few weeks now. I have used Autopilot a lot on the highway and on backroads and I have not experienced any phantom braking.

 

[buddhafree]

Have had my MYP for a few weeks now. I have used Autopilot a lot on the highway and on backroads and I have not experienced any phantom braking.

Your phantom braking is broken

 

[HellsKitchen]

Does anyone know if the cameras on Tesla cars stereo or not? It seems that the phantom braking issues happen when the cameras misinterpret objects and their position, and maybe adding depth perception might help?

 

[M3BlueGeorgia]

I also own a November delivery Model Y (Late 2021 VIN) with No FSD, Running 2021.44.30. I have driven 1200 miles. I drive primarily on two lane roads.... when I try to use the adaptive cruise control on two lane roads I get phantom braking when large vehicles (RVs, 18 wheelers, some pickups) are approaching from the opposite direction in the other lane. Sorta scary when it occurs, and I'm sure the drivers who are following directly behind me think I'm an idiot because of the car's irrational braking behavior.

Have you reported to the NTSB ?