Phantom braking is the biggest issue with AutoPilot.

[Kitfox]

I experience phantom braking nearly every day on my commute on I-90 going under the overpasses through Eastgate in Bellevue. It seems to be worse in the HOV lane.

Then Eastbound entering Mercer Island in the HOV lane, I get the red hands take-over-immediately every singe commute home. It takes the autopilot computer about 3 minutes to reboot after that.

Thie route between Seattle and Issaquah in the HOV lane is really the worst.

With an extremely reproducible case like that, have you put in the bug report when it happens?
Does your car have daily access to WiFi to upload the data?

 

[GoergeJetson]

I’ll also chime in on the phantom/random braking I experience in my TM3P, it happens often, sometimes in random locations, sometimes in the dark, and sometimes in the day due to shadows from overpasses. I’ve also owned other cars with Level 1 driving assist features and the Tesla is far and away much more problematic when it comes to abruptly slowing the car for no apparent reason. The system obviously sees something it interprets as a possible hazard when there is nothing there but maybe a shadow, reflection, or as others have said, possible GPS data loss. Just based on other posts in this thread, it’s a common enough problem that I would be very surprised if Tesla didn’t know of several root causes, and they are continually are working to make improvements to reduce incidents of “phantom braking” but it’s a complex problem that Tesla will never fully resolve.

 

[marksvend]

With an extremely reproducible case like that, have you put in the bug report when it happens?
Does your car have daily access to WiFi to upload the data?

Yes. I've submitted bug reports from the car when it happens, and I have WiFi in the garage and data sharing enabled. I gave up on submitting bug reports from the car computer because I don't think anyone looks at them.

"Green" has reproduced the phantom braking and analyzed the car radar and camera data. green on Twitter

Elon last week said the autopilot team is doing yet another rewrite of the code, so I'm guessing this is why we haven't seen any progress on bugs like this for over a year.

 

[IceIceBaby]

Disclaminer: HW3 Model 3 owner on 2019.32.2.

So yesterday I took a trip from Seattle WA to Shelton, WA. I used AutoPilot in both directions for around 95% of the trip, and it was *almost* amazing. It's around 90 miles each way.

Two things stood in the way of this awesomeness, and they're issues that have been here for what feels like FAR too long:

1.) Merging-lane veering. Like clockwork, on a wide merge lane the car will veer to the right, and then back to the left, trying to center itself. Since I had a friend behind me in her Model 3, - also on AutoPilot, it was pretty funny to see her car make the same maneuver in my rear-view mirror. As a driver I expect it and am in control - but as a passenger it's NOT fun to experience.

2.) Phantom braking. This is getting to be a bit of a joke. On several occasions on the trip the car made lunging/braking/lunging motions, like it wasn't sure what it was doing - even without any cars in front of me, and clear lane markings. On one occasion it determined an overpass meant slowing to ~50mph from 65mph was necessary, and on the way home a large concrete wall to my left caused a pretty aggressive braking maneuver for absolutely no reason. Again, as a driver who understands these limitations - it's not the end of the world (though it could be if someone was driving too close behind), but as a passenger this can be quite distressing/frustrating.

Anyway, it's a real shame these issues still exist, and there doesn't appear to have been any improvements (in my car anyway) in the 4.5 months I've had it.

This is just what comes along with being a pioneer with technology. It's bleeding edge and it won't be perfect.

 

[ranss12]

I had a dangerous phantom braking incident a couple of days ago while on NoA on expressway. Usually I experience phantom braking as a very short, not too abrupt brake event. But the other day, a pickup truck was following close behind and my car decided to do a hard, prolonged phantom brake event and the truck behind me had to slam on his brakes and still got way to close even though I reacted to the event as fast as I could. First time this (hard, prolonged phantom brake event) has happened, and it has shaken my trust in EAP/NoA. I've been reluctant to use it since then. If the guy behind me hadn't been alert there definitely would have been an accident. I wonder what he was thinking I was doing. Brake-checking him?

 

[tvad]

I had a dangerous phantom braking incident a couple of days ago while on NoA on expressway. Usually I experience phantom braking as a very short, not too abrupt brake event. But the other day, a pickup truck was following close behind and my car decided to do a hard, prolonged phantom brake event and the truck behind me had to slam on his brakes and still got way to close even though I reacted to the event as fast as I could. First time this (hard, prolonged phantom brake event) has happened, and it has shaken my trust in EAP/NoA. I've been reluctant to use it since then. If the guy behind me hadn't been alert there definitely would have been an accident. I wonder what he was thinking I was doing. Brake-checking him?

+1 on shared experience, and lack of trust in EAP/NoA.

 

[Yang_H]

I think one easy albeit temporal solution Tesla can do is try to make those phantom brakes much less abrupt. Right now the car phantom brakes like it's running into a collision. There is no point to brake so hard even for real speed limit changes. Gentler braking and slower deceleration would make phantom brake much more tolerable and safer. Don't understand why Tesla hasn't done this yet.

BTW, ever since getting my TM3 few weeks ago I found I got tailgated routinely by those big pickups on highways. Do those pickup drivers really have a thing about hating Tesla? Why so...

 

[WilliamG]

I think one easy albeit temporal solution Tesla can do is try to make those phantom brakes much less abrupt. Right now the car phantom brakes like it's running into a collision. There is no point to brake so hard even for real speed limit changes. Gentler braking and slower deceleration would make phantom brake much more tolerable and safer. Don't understand why Tesla hasn't done this yet.

BTW, ever since getting my TM3 few weeks ago I found I got tailgated routinely by those big pickups on highways. Do those pickup drivers really have a thing about hating Tesla? Why so...

That assumes the reason it's always braking is because of a perceived speed limit change. I have difficulty believing that's always true, because the braking at times is near-emergency level. That's not normal.

 

[bruce4000]

With Tesla having a forward facing radar, I would think that would be the primary input for doing emergency braking, camera seeing shadow from an overpass should be ignored if radar does not confirm stopped/slow object in front?!

 

[WilliamG]

With Tesla having a forward facing radar, I would think that would be the primary input for doing emergency braking, camera seeing shadow from an overpass should be ignored if radar does not confirm stopped/slow object in front?!

You'd think so. I think a lot of our thoughts are waaaay beyond conjecture. I've never driven a car with adaptive cruise control that's ever behaved like a Tesla, it's something that hopefully they can address. I've experienced this issue since day 1 getting my HW3 Model 3, back in May, 2019. I imagine others have experienced this issue for much longer.

 

[brur]

You'd think so. I think a lot of our thoughts are waaaay beyond conjecture. I've never driven a car with adaptive cruise control that's ever behaved like a Tesla, it's something that hopefully they can address. I've experienced this issue since day 1 getting my HW3 Model 3, back in May, 2019. I imagine others have experienced this issue for much longer.

Up until about May/June of last year, I never had emergency reasonless braking. When I bought my car I drove it home on autopilot. I loved it. Yesterday I had a stupid brake on cruise control and another dumb brake on autopilot driving on the same road, same conditions. When you throw in the wandering from side to side of the lane, this has been a tough seven months to keep positive about autopilot.

 

[Aellinsar]

I saw this thread title and it occurred to me that I haven't had phantom braking in a long, long time. So it's been improved for me, at least.

 

[Fernand]

The camera cleaning issue might be worth looking at. FWIW, I simply don't get phantom braking. I got a couple of regen slowdowns over the entire last year, both in the right lane approaching a messy situation. That's it. The whole AP system works great, better all the time, not because i'm, what did that guy say .. oh yeah, "in denial". And this car isn't "wandering from side to side of the lane" as it did after one update a while back.

But I do keep those cameras immaculate. From my aircraft days I got in the habit of doing a walk-around to check the car, and I wipe the cameras with a microfiber cloth before start of day departure, and after rainy muddy segments. The left repeater, the left pillar, the rear over the license plate, the right pillar, the right repeater, then the windshield set. I tend to do a symbolic wipe on the sensors as I pass. This takes a minute, maybe two. Well worth it I think, it's like wiping your glasses. If I forget I'll stop and wipe 'em at the next opportunity.

I got a yellow alert the other day while AP'ing down a non-NOA highway, about something being wrong with the left pillar camera, and autopilot getting disabled. Stopped on the side of the road, and sure enough, there was something strange that looked like a dual scratch and some fogging over that camera. It turned out to wipe away, but with a lot of rubbing. Resumed, then got the alert again 15 min later. Wiped it away again. Haven't had a problem since.

I suppose there might be situations where there's dirt but it's below the alert threshold. I wonder how many people just drive and don't bother to wipe the cameras.
.

 

[ranss12]

+1 on shared experience, and lack of trust in EAP/NoA.

I think I'll try disabling automatic emergency braking and see if that improves the situation. Has anyone else tried this? Incidentally, when I had my event as described above there was no speed limit change, but I believe I was in the vicinity of an overpass.

 

[widodh]

The camera cleaning issue might be worth looking at. FWIW, I simply don't get phantom braking. I got a couple of regen slowdowns over the entire last year, both in the right lane approaching a messy situation. That's it. The whole AP system works great, better all the time, not because i'm, what did that guy say .. oh yeah, "in denial". And this car isn't "wandering from side to side of the lane" as it did after one update a while back.

I suppose there might be situations where there's dirt but it's below the alert threshold. I wonder how many people just drive and don't bother to wipe the cameras.
.

My car goes through the carwash every week. It's almost always clean. But still: I phantom brakes a lot.

Mainly overpasses or bridges with shadows which causes it to brake. I drive with a foot above the accelerator pedal instead of the brake. I think that says enough.

What I've also noticed that it brakes because if thinks a truck or car in the lane right of me is in my lane. It's clearly not, but the car highlights it in light grey and the brakes hard.

 

[Knuppe]

This weekend on a weekend holiday. Pouring with rain on bad tarmac.
Serious braking when the Tesla detects hydroplaning. Very nerve-wracking and dangerous. Braking is the last thing i'd want to do in that weather.

 

[brur]

The camera cleaning issue might be worth looking at. FWIW, I simply don't get phantom braking. I got a couple of regen slowdowns over the entire last year, both in the right lane approaching a messy situation. That's it. The whole AP system works great, better all the time, not because i'm, what did that guy say .. oh yeah, "in denial". And this car isn't "wandering from side to side of the lane" as it did after one update a while back.

But I do keep those cameras immaculate. From my aircraft days I got in the habit of doing a walk-around to check the car, and I wipe the cameras with a microfiber cloth before start of day departure, and after rainy muddy segments. The left repeater, the left pillar, the rear over the license plate, the right pillar, the right repeater, then the windshield set. I tend to do a symbolic wipe on the sensors as I pass. This takes a minute, maybe two. Well worth it I think, it's like wiping your glasses. If I forget I'll stop and wipe 'em at the next opportunity.

I got a yellow alert the other day while AP'ing down a non-NOA highway, about something being wrong with the left pillar camera, and autopilot getting disabled. Stopped on the side of the road, and sure enough, there was something strange that looked like a dual scratch and some fogging over that camera. It turned out to wipe away, but with a lot of rubbing. Resumed, then got the alert again 15 min later. Wiped it away again. Haven't had a problem since.

I suppose there might be situations where there's dirt but it's below the alert threshold. I wonder how many people just drive and don't bother to wipe the cameras.
.

Not in my case, I had done a complete clean of the exterior the day before and had not done in driving in the interim. I hope its a matter of accumulated software downloads beshatting each other. If I have been right in noticing older cars always seem to have more issues, trouble is everybody's car gets older one day. With installation of the new 3 computer, things will likely get better.

 

[Mike Ess]

It's happened at this location three times, and it's passed the location without any braking about four times. I figure it's the circled thing that's causing confusion??

View attachment 506540

Nope. It is the road you are paralleling...

 

[MobileClimate]

I thought my front camera was clean then I viewed my dash cam footage from the front camera and found that the front camera was not clear and I had some kind of tree sap/wax on the windshield causing streaks on objects in the footage

 

[PianoAl]

Nope. It is the road you are paralleling...

The exit ramp?