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Phantom braking is the biggest issue with AutoPilot.

preilly44

Member
Nov 1, 2014
459
349
Bethesda, MD, United States
I'm surprised so many of you are still having phantom braking issues. My 3P, my wife's 3P and my father in laws 3AWD have resolved the issue 98-99%.

I have found that it will slow down if NOA thinks you are in the wrong lane for an exit but that's the only time it slows down for me 99% of the time. My wife and father in law would never use AP because of the PB issue but now they love it.
 
Mar 17, 2019
23
10
Toronto
Had my first long-ish highway trip after getting V10 today. Round trip 200km of highway driving east out of Toronto and back. Heavy traffic one way, smooth sailing the way back. No phantom braking at all, on stretches of highway 401 where overpasses have been a problem in the past.

Another issue: there was one instance where traffic ahead stopped abruptly and I had to slam on the brakes myself because it felt like autopilot was not going to stop in time. Second time in six months I felt compelled to brake aggressively to override NOA deceleration.
 

turnem

Member
Apr 24, 2019
498
621
Charlotte, NC
Yes! You got it!

Notice that once it's in that lane, it slows from overtake speed for the lane change to 63 to follow that car, dropping to 62 on occasion.

Two things happened in fact. The slowdown for the car it intended to be behind, and the initial-but-abandoned slowdown to fall behind the car to its right when that was an obstructed lane. You could see the red car and lane line indicator.

A human driver would most likely accelerate into the space and not leave full follow room behind the slower car, then slow down slowly to below that car's speed to fall back until there was enough follow distance, and regain speed.

That's tricky because cutting down that follow distance is, in all technicality, bad and increases the chance of an accident during the maneuver. Just thinking about how to handle such a thing from a programmatic standpoint is a headache, because there are so many edge cases and stupid situations that it's really hard to train for. But if you think about it, take a brand new driving student and say "You need to be going the speed of the car you'll get behind, and don't get too close behind them, and check before you change lanes, and if there's a car there, you should probably go behind it unless it gives you room", and that student will react pretty much the way the car did.

My understanding is that the best way to improve situations like the one in the video is to intervene (brake or steer to interrupt AP) and then connect to WiFi within a day if possible. The intervention data should be sent to Tesla then. I'm not sure if certain maneuver characteristics are still sent automatically without intervention.
Thanks for the detailed breakdown! Very helpful!
 

momoz74

Member
Sep 18, 2019
42
16
Orlando, FL
I didn't see many braking issues, but the elephant was interesting... I guess it was taking a break.

the merge at 3:30 like you said there is a gap in speed limit detection.

this is exactly the cause of my phantom braking. Every time I have a massive 75+ to 60 slow down there is no speed limit icon on the screen. It seems to drop me to 60mph.
 

Knuppe

Member
Nov 3, 2019
29
34
Netherlands
Still having this issue, heavy braking before an overpass / bridge. Tesla has to understand this is just dangerous. It’s been 2 years now.

Tesla is selling massively in other countries now. But these countries have much more congested traffic. I for one cannot turn on TACC where i live (Netherlands), it’s just too crowded, everywhere. Turning it on is far from relaxing. Constant braking because of traffic changing lanes. It’s jerky. I know i can do better. Give me normal CC.
 

SSonnentag

Rocket Scientist
Apr 11, 2017
1,709
2,161
Arizona
Still having this issue, heavy braking before an overpass / bridge. Tesla has to understand this is just dangerous. It’s been 2 years now.

Tesla is selling massively in other countries now. But these countries have much more congested traffic. I for one cannot turn on TACC where i live (Netherlands), it’s just too crowded, everywhere. Turning it on is far from relaxing. Constant braking because of traffic changing lanes. It’s jerky. I know i can do better. Give me normal CC.

I get the same with my S and shadows from large trucks, bridges, etc. I'd like to see the option to switch between three versions of cruise control:

  1. Old Fashioned cruise control without any intelligence, only speed-holding ability.
  2. Adaptive cruise control based upon radar input only, like most other adaptive cruise control systems implemented around the world.
  3. Tesla's full adaptive cruise control utilizing both radar and camera input as is now done.
 

WilliamG

Active Member
Apr 20, 2019
3,024
2,919
Seattle, WA
I get the same with my S and shadows from large trucks, bridges, etc. I'd like to see the option to switch between three versions of cruise control:

  1. Old Fashioned cruise control without any intelligence, only speed-holding ability.
  2. Adaptive cruise control based upon radar input only, like most other adaptive cruise control systems implemented around the world.
  3. Tesla's full adaptive cruise control utilizing both radar and camera input as is now done.

That will never, ever happen. If it did it would be Tesla basically admitting their AutoPilot system is flawed.
 
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Kitfox

Member
Aug 17, 2019
147
100
Vancouver, WA
Still having this issue, heavy braking before an overpass / bridge. Tesla has to understand this is just dangerous. It’s been 2 years now.

Tesla is selling massively in other countries now. But these countries have much more congested traffic. I for one cannot turn on TACC where i live (Netherlands), it’s just too crowded, everywhere. Turning it on is far from relaxing. Constant braking because of traffic changing lanes. It’s jerky. I know i can do better. Give me normal CC.

If overpass slowing happening at the same location consistently, then it's a mapping issue and the map data provided to Tesla is incorrect, causing the car to think the speed limit is lower in that location and slow down as a result.

If somebody is getting into the lane in front of you, the law requires the vehicle to slow and fall back for proper following distance. Just because you as a driver would not do that does not mean that you are correct. As a passenger in the vehicle being controlled by the vehicle itself, the maneuvers will not be something you'd anticipate and so will seem different.

Or there's something specific to your car along with a very small fraction of others. Hundreds of thousands of Teslas drive under millions of overpasses on autopilot and don't slow down.

So you've got camera footage of the behavior and taken it to Tesla, right?
 

SSonnentag

Rocket Scientist
Apr 11, 2017
1,709
2,161
Arizona
If overpass slowing happening at the same location consistently, then it's a mapping issue and the map data provided to Tesla is incorrect, causing the car to think the speed limit is lower in that location and slow down as a result.

If somebody is getting into the lane in front of you, the law requires the vehicle to slow and fall back for proper following distance. Just because you as a driver would not do that does not mean that you are correct. As a passenger in the vehicle being controlled by the vehicle itself, the maneuvers will not be something you'd anticipate and so will seem different.

Or there's something specific to your car along with a very small fraction of others. Hundreds of thousands of Teslas drive under millions of overpasses on autopilot and don't slow down.

So you've got camera footage of the behavior and taken it to Tesla, right?

It's not every overpass or semi, but maybe 1 in 50 or so. It's also obviously not a speed limit mapping issue.
 

SSonnentag

Rocket Scientist
Apr 11, 2017
1,709
2,161
Arizona
That will never, ever happen. If it did it would be Tesla basically admitting their AutoPilot system is flawed.

Like Tesla admits their automatic emergency braking is flawed, thus giving us a way to disable it?
Like Tesla admits their lane departure warning is flawed, thus giving us a way to disable it?

My point is, not every choice Tesla gives us means they're admitting failure.
 
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TLLMRRJ

Active Member
Dec 19, 2019
1,641
1,611
Houston
Just can't understand why anyone would pay $7000 for FSD when we are supposed to accept that the car can't even go straight on the highway without us nervously waiting for it to screw up after 3+ years of AP development of the Model 3 and much longer on Model S.

The programmers are clearly not very good at what they do.

So if they still haven't fixed those AP issues in 3 years, how long until you think until they'll fix FSD?
 
Last edited:

WilliamG

Active Member
Apr 20, 2019
3,024
2,919
Seattle, WA
Like Tesla admits their automatic emergency braking is flawed, thus giving us a way to disable it?
Like Tesla admits their lane departure warning is flawed, thus giving us a way to disable it?

My point is, not every choice Tesla gives us means they're admitting failure.

They’re not equivalent. I see your point but I don’t think they’re equivalent.
 

Knuppe

Member
Nov 3, 2019
29
34
Netherlands
If overpass slowing happening at the same location consistently, then it's a mapping issue and the map data provided to Tesla is incorrect, causing the car to think the speed limit is lower in that location and slow down as a result.

If somebody is getting into the lane in front of you, the law requires the vehicle to slow and fall back for proper following distance. Just because you as a driver would not do that does not mean that you are correct. As a passenger in the vehicle being controlled by the vehicle itself, the maneuvers will not be something you'd anticipate and so will seem different.

Or there's something specific to your car along with a very small fraction of others. Hundreds of thousands of Teslas drive under millions of overpasses on autopilot and don't slow down.

So you've got camera footage of the behavior and taken it to Tesla, right?
No I do not have footage. But there is footage online that shows this flaw. It’s more than ‘a few’ drivers having this problem.
And there is no law here that states i have to slow down. What i normally did with my ICE car, was cancel cruise control and let the car slow down by itself, then overtake when possible and restore the speed. Less jerky, and less annoying for everyone behind me (no brake lights).
 

notAnExpert

Member
Aug 11, 2018
466
696
Palo Alto, CA
If overpass slowing happening at the same location consistently, then it's a mapping issue ...

If somebody is getting into the lane in front of you, the law requires the vehicle to slow and fall back for proper following distance...

Hundreds of thousands of Teslas drive under millions of overpasses on autopilot and don't slow down.

It is not a slowdown, it is a sudden braking action. I’ve experienced it several times on the highway. It doesn’t consistently happen at the same place. So it isn’t a mapping issue. It happens when there isn’t a car ahead of me. So it isn’t a slowdown to maintain proper braking distance.

I’m not sure how you know that hundreds of thousands of Teslas driving under millions of overpasses on autopilot have not experienced this problem. It happens to many of us and I’ve been told by Tesla that there is nothing wrong with my car. In fact, I was told by the service center that many people have reported this issue and they don’t have an answer for it.
 

p1l0t3

Member
Mar 5, 2016
120
39
Quebec, QC, Canada
My phantom braking issue is with AP when I want to change lane for overtaking a car.
It will brake when I'm halfway of my overtake because I got too close from the left side of the car I am overtaking. Even if the overtaking is smooth.
It's like when overtaking i have to change lane as quickly as possible instead of the smoothest action.
 

4U2NV

Member
Jan 15, 2020
9
2
Lake Elsinore, CA
I can understand both of those concerns. I've experienced the car moving to the left when two lanes merge, it isn't dangerous but it sucks cause it looks like I'm trying to "block" someone that is attempting to merge which kind of sucks. And on the random slowing down, it might be the cars in the lane next to you. If your going faster then them, the car does slow down even with nobody in front of you.
 

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