Edit.. yeah.. there was one overpass with high contrast light/shadow that freaked the car out. I forgot about that until I was back reading a few more comments
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Phantom Braking issues improved in 2022.4.5.17 update?
- Thread starter jackmott
- Start date
The downside to a neural network approach to this stuff, is there is no line of code you can go to and say "ok if we see high contrast, check this and that and see if its just a bridge shadow". You just have a neural network with a bunch of numbers in it, you don't know how they all interact. You just have to try training if differently, structuring the network differently, or training it with different/more data and see if it fixes the issue....and then maybe it does but creates a new issue.
Our Y came with 2021.43.10x a few weeks ago. We did two trips with about 4 hours of rural 2-lane , and using only TACC, we got >5mph slowdown on about 2/3 of approaching semis; plus alarm bells and hard braking (20mph+ slowdown) on maybe 1 out of 10. One pickup ditched the lane and went onto the shoulder to avoid rear-ending us. It was bad enough that I would only use TACC on 2-lane rural highway if I was trailing another car at following distance (and then I still got a braking event due to an oncoming semi, with with a following distance of 7, then again with following distance 5).
Then our Y updated to 2022.4.5.17, then it updated again to 2022.8.2. We are halfway through the same trip as before, and last night we counted 16 oncoming semis without so much as a 5mph slow-down (again using only TACC). This was without following another vehicle; including during rightwards bend in the road, including with white semis, including both daytime and night-time driving. It's a stark improvement from 2021.43.10x behavior.
We did not do any road trips while the car was on 2022.4.5.17, so I'm unsure if the improvement happened with 2022.4.5.17 or with 2022.8.2. It was good enough yesterday that I may change my wifi password to prevent another update for a while
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Then our Y updated to 2022.4.5.17, then it updated again to 2022.8.2. We are halfway through the same trip as before, and last night we counted 16 oncoming semis without so much as a 5mph slow-down (again using only TACC). This was without following another vehicle; including during rightwards bend in the road, including with white semis, including both daytime and night-time driving. It's a stark improvement from 2021.43.10x behavior.
We did not do any road trips while the car was on 2022.4.5.17, so I'm unsure if the improvement happened with 2022.4.5.17 or with 2022.8.2. It was good enough yesterday that I may change my wifi password to prevent another update for a while
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OncomingStorm
Member
yeah after using .17 for a while now i can defiantly say its better. i've been using it more on roads with oncoming traffic and has been really nice so yay to that. oddly tho, i've noticed it seems more hesitant to change lanes for some reason. i've had multiple aborted lane changes for no clear reason lol... now it's Phantom Lane Change Abort!! but atleast that just makes you look dumb and doesn't cause any real problems haha
I haven't driven any long distance 2-lane trips yet but after getting 2022.8.2, I've experienced zero phantom brakes. I know the older version would have done it in couple of situations, and my foot was on the acc, but didn't have to do it at all. A big pickup coming real close to the center lane coming towards me doesn't seem to affect PB at all now.
OncomingStorm
Member
just to pile on, i had someone cut in front of me turning left from the opposing direction. he had plenty of room but its a situation that AP has in the past pretty reliably freaked out in, many times almost coming to a complete stop. today it just slowed down a little bit, rather like a human might, still a hair on the cautious side but soooo much better feel to it. clearly a lot of work done with regards to braking in this update.
In our case, we switched to Tesla because it shaved 4.25 hours off a drive I have made 6 times in 3 weeks (versus a Bolt). Literally saving me 9 hours of driving per week right now.
But if TACC hadn't recently improved, we would have sold as soon as either EA added Wausau WI and Green Bay (probably this summer), or Tesla opened its network. Working Cruise Control on 2-lane highway is that improtant! I realize this is not true for people in urban areas.
But we will be much happier to be able to keep the Tesla. I think the recent improvement is really encouraging.
Totally agree that working CC is critical. My drive to see my daughter is 400 miles of almost only 2 lane. Only drive on the interstate is 10 miles to get to the supercharger, and an alternate route eliminates that.
But the recent update is so much better it has convinced me that Tesla can do this. It's just a matter of fine tuning. Why they didn't work it out sooner is beyond me, because clearly it has always been possible.
On the return leg, we had zero problems over 2 hours of 2-lane, then drove 7 hours of multi-lane, then a final one hour of 2-lane. On that final hour, we had alarm bells + strong braking just from regular pickup trucks in oncoming lane. It was bizarre: we'd already done about 4 hours of 2-lane on 2022.8.2 on this trip without a single issue, even from white trucks coming around a rightwards bend, over a hilltop, at dusk. Zero issues. Then suddenly it went into freakout mode whenever it saw F150s in the distance on a straight road. It was like someone flipped the switch from "good" to "evil".
The only thing that comes to mind is that the final hour was dusk... but two days before, we'd driven from full daytime, through dusk, until darkness, all on 2-lane, with heavy truck traffic but zero trouble. We were heading north the first time, and south the second time, but we were not headed into the sunset either time. So...
"it's complicated"
I can confidently use TACC now with 2022.4.5.17. I always got phantom braking on 2 lane country roads with a semi or large truck coming up in oncoming lane and in small towns with cars parked on either side. (car would beep and slow way down then speed back up). I wouldn't use it once I got used to where the issues would be it was like this ever since I got it in nov 2021. Now I engage it and go through towns, 2 lane country roads etc. There was a single time it freaked out and when it did instead of braking or whatever it simply disengaged with the red steering wheel icon on the screen saying to take over. I was just upgraded to 2022.8.3 today so we will see how that goes. But it is nice for the first time since I got the car to be able to use it and actually start to trust it.
I've had my 2021 M3LR since Aug 2021 and my current odometer reading is 35,626. I am a fairly high-mileage driver (although I've met a few people that double or triple me). I also was not pleased with the TACC on 2-lane roads, with the constant collision warnings and speed adjustments for oncoming traffic. I wouldn't call these "phantom breaking" events because they were triggered by oncoming traffic. I would refer to them more as "incorrect event responses." I learned to keep my foot near the accel pedal to "push thru" the incorrect speed adjustments as they occurred.
But once I installed 2022.4.5.17 almost all of the incorrect event responses on 2-lane roads have disappeared. My take on this is that Tesla has made adjustments to correct these types of events long ago in their FSD beta (which is getting most of their attention), but now that the NHTSA has been investigating, Tesla finally copied this part of their FSD code into the Autopilot and we all can benefit.
When people would ask my how I like my Tesla, the TACC issues were one of the few areas I would use as an example that it's not a perfect car. Now I'm going to have to find something else negative about it so that I still sound objective. Maybe that it only gets about 4x better economy than my previous ICE car (Subaru Outback), and I was hoping for 10x better?
But once I installed 2022.4.5.17 almost all of the incorrect event responses on 2-lane roads have disappeared. My take on this is that Tesla has made adjustments to correct these types of events long ago in their FSD beta (which is getting most of their attention), but now that the NHTSA has been investigating, Tesla finally copied this part of their FSD code into the Autopilot and we all can benefit.
When people would ask my how I like my Tesla, the TACC issues were one of the few areas I would use as an example that it's not a perfect car. Now I'm going to have to find something else negative about it so that I still sound objective. Maybe that it only gets about 4x better economy than my previous ICE car (Subaru Outback), and I was hoping for 10x better?
Just got upgraded to 8.3 yesterday and took it for a ride to check that very same thing (also Vision MY w/o FSD). Several encounters in the drive that would have caused it to slow prior to 4.5.17 did not. I will have to go for longer to know for absolute certain, but so far feels exactly the same.
Drove 4.5 hours of rural 2-lane highway yesterday, running 2022.12.1 with mostly TACC. Passed 51 oncoming semis when we were not following behind another vehicle. We had zero braking due to oncoming traffic (not even the little 5mph slowdown kind). We tried AP but gave up because it seemed to hug the center line too closely when there were oncoming semis.
We did have two mystery slowdowns with no vehicles around us at all, but they were small 5mph-ish slowdowns, and not a safety concern.
We are now at the point where I don't bother to hover my foot over the accelerator when encountering a semi, except when someone is driving closely behind me. It seems like this issue was fixed in 2022.4.5.17, and the fix has been maintained (no regression) in 2022.8.3 and now 2022.12.1.
We did have two mystery slowdowns with no vehicles around us at all, but they were small 5mph-ish slowdowns, and not a safety concern.
We are now at the point where I don't bother to hover my foot over the accelerator when encountering a semi, except when someone is driving closely behind me. It seems like this issue was fixed in 2022.4.5.17, and the fix has been maintained (no regression) in 2022.8.3 and now 2022.12.1.
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Tried AP again for the first time on 2022.12.3. Still absolutely usable on 2-lane roads, even with big oncoming cars. Not sure why SecondFiddle's car centers too close to the center lane - mine seems to be pretty much at dead center, and did a good job when there were only center lanes.
I'm glad they didn't break it on this update!
I'm glad they didn't break it on this update!
Tried AP again for the first time on 2022.12.3. Still absolutely usable on 2-lane roads, even with big oncoming cars. Not sure why SecondFiddle's car centers too close to the center lane - mine seems to be pretty much at dead center, and did a good job when there were only center lanes.
I'm glad they didn't break it on this update!
I originally read that as "Still absolutely unusable on 2-lane roads". Glad I misread it.
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